Thanks for sharing your story Mack! I'm sorry your freedom has to come with such a high price tag as losing close friends and loved ones. Hang in there!
~Bugs
BugParadise
JoinedPosts by BugParadise
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My Story
by Mackin ini guess it's time for me to tell my story on this forum.
my parents came into contact with the "truth" during their engagement and so i was born into a borg family and quickly "assimilated.
" the congregation i grew up in however had very liberal views on many subjects, such as higher education, secular careers, and the like.
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A NEW SIGN OUT FRONT AT BETHEL!
by Mary ini think it's time bethel got a new sign out front, one that really speaks volumes and is far more suitable to their "read god's word the bible daily.
i was thinking: .
oh what a web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!
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BugParadise
Not bad Bugparadise! I must say that you are quite interesting? (referring to your pic) You are quite interesting indeed. Your smile is absolutely (how should I say) ...um.. wonderful! God bless!
MrBusy
Mr Shortz ..
You are going to be so happy when you see my smilin face on the cover of the Rollin Stone!
gonna send 5 copies to your mother
~Bugs a hoppin
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65 QUESTIONS---FIRST 10 ANSWERS
by You Know inwith that in mind, then, we can better appreciate what jesus was referring to when he spoke about the temple of his body.
thats because they are persons, whereas the holy spirit is a force that is merely frequently referred to as if it were a person.
5. the wts claims that ezekial's prophecy of the jews returning to their land is fulfilled in their organization.
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BugParadise
The prophecies speak to us in different ways. In the book of Daniel, for example, the imperial lineage of the present day Anglo-American power is laid out in symbols. At other times, though, the prophets speak to us by establishing patterns. For example, after referring to Sodom and Gomorrah and Noahs Flood, Peter said of such events in the past: "Setting a pattern for ungodly persons of things to come." So, what we have in Ezekiel is a pattern of how Jehovah is able to redeem and restore his people to their rightful place. In the case of Christians we are not talking about a physical place of residence but a spiritual inheritance. Just as the Jews had their Promised Land, spiritual Jews have a spiritual paradise that God has promised them.
More Bologna
You have a lot more land verses to explain away .. and also the fact the literal nation of Israel just happens to be back in their land. This is the first time in the history of mankind that a nation has ceased to exist for 2000 years and then became a Nation in a day. Read and study Romans 11 as well. It debunks replacement theology.
"The Lord will not reject his people; he will never forsake his inheritance." (Psalm 94:14)
"This is what the Lord says, he who appoints the sun to shine by day, who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar - the Lord Almighty is his name: 'Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,' declares the Lord, 'will the descendants of Israel ever cease to be a nation before me.'" (Jeremiah 31:35-36)Romans 11:29
For God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.
Romans11:28,29
As far as the Gospel goes, they are at present God's enemies -- which is to your advantage. But as far as God's purpose in choosing is concerned, they are still beloved for their fathers' sakes. For once they are made, GOD DOES NOT WITHDRAW HIS GIFTS OR HIS CALLING.Isaiah 14:1: For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.
Isaiah 35:7: And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, [shall be] grass with reeds and rushes.
Isaiah 41:18: I will open rivers in high places, and fountains in the midst of the valleys: I will make the wilderness a pool of water, and the dry land springs of water.
Jeremiah 3:16: And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the LORD: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit [it]; neither shall [that] be done any more.
Jeremiah 3:18: In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers.
Jeremiah 3:19: But I said, How shall I put thee among the children, and give thee a pleasant land, a goodly heritage of the hosts of nations? and I said, Thou shalt call me, My father; and shalt not turn away from me.
Jeremiah 4:5: Declare ye in Judah, and publish in Jerusalem; and say, Blow ye the trumpet in the land: cry, gather together, and say, Assemble yourselves, and let us go into the defenced cities.
Jeremiah 4:27: For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
Jeremiah 5:19: And it shall come to pass, when ye shall say, Wherefore doeth the LORD our God all these [things] unto us? then shalt thou answer them, Like as ye have forsaken me, and served strange gods in your land, so shall ye serve strangers in a land [that is] not yours.
Jeremiah 7:7: Then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever and ever.
Jeremiah 12:14: Thus saith the LORD against all mine evil neighbours, that touch the inheritance which I have caused my people Israel to inherit; Behold, I will pluck them out of their land, and pluck out the house of Judah from among them.
Jeremiah 12:15: And it shall come to pass, after that I have plucked them out I will return, and have compassion on them, and will bring them again, every man to his heritage, and every man to his land.
Jeremiah 16:15: But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.
Jeremiah 23:7: Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
Jeremiah 23:8: But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.
Jeremiah 24:6: For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull [them] down; and I will plant them, and not pluck [them] up.
Jeremiah 30:3: For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.Jeremiah 33:11: The voice of joy, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the voice of them that shall say, Praise the LORD of hosts: for the LORD [is] good; for his mercy [endureth] for ever: [and] of them that shall bring the sacrifice of praise into the house of the LORD. For I will cause to return the captivity of the land, as at the first, saith the LORD.
Jeremiah 42:12: And I will show mercies unto you, that he may have mercy upon you, and cause you to return to your own land.
Ezekiel 11:15: Son of man, thy brethren, [even] thy brethren, the men of thy kindred, and all the house of Israel wholly, [are] they unto whom the inhabitants of Jerusalem have said, Get you far from the LORD: unto us is this land given in possession.
Ezekiel 11:17: Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.
Ezekiel 20:42: And ye shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I shall bring you into the land of Israel, into the country [for] the which I lifted up mine hand to give it to your fathers.
Ezekiel 28:25: Thus saith the Lord GOD; When I shall have gathered the house of Israel from the people among whom they are scattered, and shall be sanctified in them in the sight of the heathen, then shall they dwell in their land that I have given to my servant Jacob.
Ezekiel 34:13: And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country.
Ezekiel 36:24: For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
Ezekiel 36:28: And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Ezekiel 36:34: And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.
Ezekiel 36:35: And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities [are become] fenced, [and] are inhabited.
Ezekiel 37:12: Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
Ezekiel 37:14: And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken [it], and performed [it], saith the LORD.
Ezekiel 37:22: And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
Ezekiel 37:25: And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, [even] they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David [shall be] their prince for ever.
Ezekiel 38:8: After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land [that is] brought back from the sword, [and is] gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
Ezekiel 39:28: Then shall they know that I [am] the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
Amos 9:15: And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.The Book of Isaiah 60:1-22Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.
For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.
Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at [thy] side.
Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.
The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall show forth the praises of the LORD.
All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto thee, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto thee: they shall come up with acceptance on mine altar, and I will glorify the house of my glory.
Who [are] these [that] fly as a cloud, and as the doves to their windows?
Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the LORD thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because he hath glorified thee.
And the sons of strangers shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee: for in my wrath I smote thee, but in my favour have I had mercy on thee.
Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that [men] may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and [that] their kings [may be] brought.
For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, [those] nations shall be utterly wasted.
The glory of Lebanon shall come unto thee, the fir tree, the pine tree, and the box together, to beautify the place of my sanctuary; and I will make the place of my feet glorious.
The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.
Whereas thou hast been forsaken and hated, so that no man went through [thee], I will make thee an eternal excellency, a joy of many generations.
Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD [am] thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.
For brass I will bring gold, and for iron I will bring silver, and for wood brass, and for stones iron: I will also make thy officers peace, and thine exactors righteousness.
Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.
The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.
Thy people also [shall be] all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the LORD will hasten it in his time.
Zechariah 12:9-11
And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.
In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
Isaiah 49:12-23 Behold, these shall come from far: and, lo, these from the north and from the west; and these from the land of Sinim.
Sing, O heavens; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for the LORD hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted.
But Zion said, The LORD hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me.
Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of [my] hands; thy walls [are] continually before me.
Thy children shall make haste; thy destroyers and they that made thee waste shall go forth of thee.
Lift up thine eyes round about, and behold: all these gather themselves together, [and] come to thee. [As] I live, saith the LORD, thou shalt surely clothe thee with them all, as with an ornament, and bind them [on thee], as a bride [doeth].
For thy waste and thy desolate places, and the land of thy destruction, shall even now be too narrow by reason of the
inhabitants, and they that swallowed thee up shall be far away.
The children which thou shalt have, after thou hast lost the other, shall say again in thine ears, The place [is] too strait for me: give place to me that I may dwell.
Then shalt thou say in thine heart, Who hath begotten me these, seeing I have lost my children, and am desolate, a captive, and removing to and fro? and who hath brought up these? Behold, I was left alone; these, where [had] they [been]?
Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in [their] arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon [their] shoulders.
And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with [their] face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I [am] the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me.
Hebrews 8:9-12 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Revelation 3:9
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Hosea 3:4,5
For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and [without] teraphim:
Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days. -
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65 QUESTIONS---FIRST 10 ANSWERS
by You Know inwith that in mind, then, we can better appreciate what jesus was referring to when he spoke about the temple of his body.
thats because they are persons, whereas the holy spirit is a force that is merely frequently referred to as if it were a person.
5. the wts claims that ezekial's prophecy of the jews returning to their land is fulfilled in their organization.
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BugParadise
Jesus frequently used fleshly, physical, earthly ideas to get across deep spiritual truths. For instance, he once told a crowd of his disciples that they must eat his flesh and drink his blood if they wanted life. Some of his disciples expressed disgust at such a thought, but Jesus, of course, was not advocating that his disciples perform some cannibalistic ritual upon his corpse. He merely was talking about how the sacrifice of his own flesh and blood was going to provide the basis for granting them everlasting life, provided that they "fed" upon him by exercising faith in his sacrificial death. With that in mind, then, we can better appreciate what Jesus was referring to when he spoke about the temple of his body.
Bologna! You are comparing apples and oranges. One key point you are overlooking is that this was in fufillment to a prophecy quoted in the Old Testament and the key is in the line highlighted in red below. The disciples believed the Scripture (already written down)
Psalms 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (His flesh)
John 2:19-22 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? But he spake of the temple of his body. When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
It must also be remembered that every verse in the Bible which deals with the resurrection of the dead, and the Lord particularly, refers exclusively to the human body; i.e., a bodily resuscitation; never a spirit or spiritual resurrection. In fact the word 'resurrection' is never applied to the soul or spirit of man. This is born out in the original Hebrew and Greek.
Beyond this, Jesus specifically prophesied that His resurrection would be bodily; that is, in a glorified form of the body He then possessed. When speaking to the unbelieving Jews, as recorded in the second chapter of John's Gospel, Christ stated "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up" The Jews, however, thought he was referring to the temple in Jerusalem but the Apostle John clearly declares meaning Jesus had in mind in a clear and concise term: " But he spake of the temple of his body"
The Greek word soma is translated "body" throughout the New Testament, so it is an inescapable fact that Christ was referring to his own physical form - hence a bodily resurrection.
If literal makes sense all other is nonsense.
~Bugs
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A NEW SIGN OUT FRONT AT BETHEL!
by Mary ini think it's time bethel got a new sign out front, one that really speaks volumes and is far more suitable to their "read god's word the bible daily.
i was thinking: .
oh what a web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!
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BugParadise
Ha ha @Shortzeeee <Big toothy Grin>
How about a real one ...
"Have you Hugged your Watchtower today?"
"After I had seen the care and precision that goes into every piece of work I felt like going into my room and hugging my Bible LITERATURE." (THE WATCHTOWER, 10/1/1992, p. 31)
~Bugs
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My chat with Elder Dad. (I'm angry!!)
by home_and_dry ini feel the need for a rant!
i had a conversation with my jw elder father tonight that has left me seething.
just to set the scene, i left the jws back in 1994. i was baptized, having been dfd and reinstated a couple of years prior to my final exit in 94. i was never dfd again and pretty much left to my own devices.
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BugParadise
To be honest though, if my kids grow up and choose to 'live in sin', then i wouldnt have a problem with that. i think the stability of the relationship is more important than a piece of paper. For me, i feel its important for my partner and i to marry, but only because or relationship is a good strong tried and tested one and its right for us. I wouldnt expect my kids to see it they same way if thats not how they feel about marriage, but in an ideal world, of course i would love them to be happy and married.
I think that is smart! You should not get married until you feel the time is right and then when you can make it the special event that you hope it to be. Also with all the trimmings if that is what makes you happy! God Bless you Home!
~Bugs
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A NEW SIGN OUT FRONT AT BETHEL!
by Mary ini think it's time bethel got a new sign out front, one that really speaks volumes and is far more suitable to their "read god's word the bible daily.
i was thinking: .
oh what a web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!
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BugParadise
Anyone else got any ideas as to what you'd like to see posted outside Bethel these days?
How about:
"Grab a Watchtower and Read our BuyBull everyday!"
or
"Have you blamed Christendom Today?"
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What Head Covering Should I Wear?
by writerpen ini've been out of the borg since august 2001 and have been attending an episcopal church since january.
this sunday, i'm scheduled to pray and read the bible before the congregation for the first time.
even though my priest jokingly said in reference to a head covering, "you better not wear one," especially being that she never wears one.
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BugParadise
JoannaDandy~>I'm thinking men's underwear...new or used I leave to your discretion
LOL!! Since I am required to cover my head most all times when going out in public I try to alternate from my every day paper bag and go to something dressier like Cheese cloth. It is much better on breathing. I will be sure to try out the men's underwear idea for a refreshing change of pace!
~Bugs
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Bible is wrong, WT is right
by Nowhere inbible's view: women can hold positions in the congregation.
proof?
ro 16:1
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BugParadise
MrBusy~>When Paul made his introduction of Phebe, I believe that Paul was introducing her as a deaconness of the Church in CenChrea. The term deaconness is someone who is a Christian teacher or servant of the Church. Deaconness does also mean pastor.
I believe this was true of Deborah as well but I will double check.
~Bugs
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Calgary Blood Case Effectively Over - We Won!
by AlanF inthought everyone would like to hear some great news about the calgary blood case.
i was sent the following, which i've modified to protect the guilty:.
at the witnesses' request, the trial has been put over till october.
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BugParadise
And lastly, my thanks to Greg Stafford. He must be going through h**l right now. Does anybody know if he can be reached through his book comany?
Here is a link to a forum he posts on if that helps any ....
http://www.channelc.org/cgi-bin/eboard30/index.cgi
~Bugs