Posts by jaffacake

49

Generic thread about supernatural

by FMZ in

jw
friends

(event which happened to me that i do not feel that science can explain).

.

(asking for other possible explanations)

jaffacake

There is still significant JW type thinking on this board, such as thinking in terms of believing in:

science or religion

christianity or evolution

These are of course straw men.

Once almost everything was unexplained, and therefore nearly everything was 'supernatural'. All these supernatural beliefs have gradually diminished, but only due to scientific progress - nothing else! What we now consider to be foolish superstition, has only been relegated to that because of what scientists have learned. Think about it, everything you take for granted today, from electricity to how your PC works, is down to what scientists have discovered! A;; just theories of course, so it must all be nonsense!?

21

Extinguishing evil and pain

by greendawn in

jw
friends

supposing that you were in god's position how would you deal with the basic issue of good and evil in the world, how would you deal with that part of mankind that refuse to stop hurting and harming their fellow humans and how would you finally extinguish evil and suffering?.

remember some people accuse god of being too soft and tolerent with evil doers while others accuse him of being too harsh and merciless.

a delicate balance is called for.

jaffacake

Daunt,
Thanks for the feedback, you've got me thinking, again. I don't claim that my muddled understanding is better than the next persons, but my beliefs have developed from the JW/fundie type I had in my teens as an adventist, to something closer to what serious Biblical scholars/interpreters discern.
What you describe as a subjective description of God is derived from my efforts to apply the six principles of Biblical interpretation. I suppose this brings my understanding of God closer to some other non-Christian religions in some ways, but farther away from JWs.
I don't think the process of evolution is God, but could God have set off a creative process, part of which was evolution, that would lead to free beings evolving with good and bad possibilities (& everything in between) There are scriptures that suggest creativity and negativity are interconnected. (I'll refrain from quoting scriptures).
These are not my ideas but those of respected theologians. The negative aspects, or necessary evils, of evolution include competition, survival of the fittest, etc that manifest themselves as being hurtful to others, lust, etc. Are these the means by which God achieves a greater good. If atoms did not decay, then complex life forms like us would not be possible. Humanity could not become like Christ, ultimately, without having gone through millions of years of evolution.
I am so bad at explaining what I mean perhaps I should refer you to someone more eloquent to make such points lol.
p.s. I agree, I do not believe in a God that could make mistakes and/or blame other entities. Hope that is not what you thought I was implying.

65

Do you secretly wish for a demon attack - serious question

by stillajwexelder in

jw
friends

.

i am not trying to compete with fmz as he has a supernatural thread going already but - do you secretlyt wish for a demon attack - serious question - the reason i ask this is because - if i had a demon attack it would mean there was a satan the devil and if there was a satan it would mean there was god.

what i am trying to say in a nutshell is "a demon attack would actually strengthen my faith" where at the moment it is non-existent almost

jaffacake

I think this sort of question could only come from a JW, SDA, Fundie or cultist (or former members). IMO Christianity and believing in demons are incompatible with each other. I had been taught about demons by adventists as a teenager - lol) I can see why a superficial and literalistic interpretation of Scriptures (specialities of the groups I mentioned) can lead to such nonsensical belief in demons. My own personal world view, includes a belief in God (but not in a literalistic sense) and the Bible, which in turn requires rejection of all superstition, including belief in Satan and demons. I believe we should reject superficial and literalistic descriptions of both God & Satan, and seek the spiritual truths. A good Bible commentary helps to give a range of interpretations. Even Christadelphians (the closest thing I have found yet to JWs and who influenced early JWs) don't believe the devil to be a fallen angel, but that this is just a type of parable for the type of evil that cn exist in the hearts of men. You could say the way God is sometimes portrayed is equally misleading, until we look deeper & see which parts of the Bible sublate (trump) the others.

21

Extinguishing evil and pain

by greendawn in

jw
friends

supposing that you were in god's position how would you deal with the basic issue of good and evil in the world, how would you deal with that part of mankind that refuse to stop hurting and harming their fellow humans and how would you finally extinguish evil and suffering?.

remember some people accuse god of being too soft and tolerent with evil doers while others accuse him of being too harsh and merciless.

a delicate balance is called for.

jaffacake

Daunt,

In your reality our free will is limited because everything we do is either for God or against God.

Perhaps I have not been able to express my thoughts clearly. I don't disagree with you, in terms of endless variables, but the question asked about good and evil, and I agree there are endless choices.

This free will by God is hogwash

Do you have free will or do you not? What is the source of your free will? Whatever your answer, that is what I labeled as 'God. You may wish to call it nature or something.

God wouldn't be benevolent and omnipotent if he couldn't do everything, he isn't much of a God imo.

But the Bible doesn't say God is omnipotent. Your definition of a God seems to be there should be nothing that he could not do. If there is any limitation whatsoever, then this God seems a disappointment. I think the prevalence of such views is part of what is wrong with religions. And as for why the Bible describes God as a he, as if a being, how else would people from the bronze age onwards record their understanding of the universe and the forces of nature?

The Bible is a diverse mix of myths, history, laws, proverbs, hymns, stories, dreams, visions, prophecies, letters and allegories. It should not be taken literally. To understand the deeper scriptural meanings we could do worsr than getting a good Bible commentary and following the principles of interpretation.

11

By Jove!

by the_classicist in

jw
friends

remember witnesses pointing out all that time that "by jove" meant "by jehovah.".

just to set the record straight: it's not "by jehovah" it's "by jupitor.

" you see in latin, jupitor is spelled thus: iuppitor.

jaffacake

I was never a JW but was taught not to say By Jove for that same reason. Interesting, thanks.

29

Welcome inarock&ahardplace, be nice to her guys . . .

by pennycandy in

jw
friends

i've been friends with inarock&ahardplace (heretofore referred to as r&h because i'm breastfeeding and have to type with one hand) since we were small enough to bite your knees.

she's the kindest, most caring person you'll ever meet and a little twisted at times so i think she'll fit in here nicely.

she's been going through a hard time ever since she asked me, "so how are you doing in the truth?

jaffacake

DeFt

Just want to say I think you're a good guy.

29

Welcome inarock&ahardplace, be nice to her guys . . .

by pennycandy in

jw
friends

i've been friends with inarock&ahardplace (heretofore referred to as r&h because i'm breastfeeding and have to type with one hand) since we were small enough to bite your knees.

she's the kindest, most caring person you'll ever meet and a little twisted at times so i think she'll fit in here nicely.

she's been going through a hard time ever since she asked me, "so how are you doing in the truth?

jaffacake

A Warm welcome,

Perhaps the fence is the safest place for you to be just now, until you find out which side Jehovah is on. The Bible says we must keep testing our faith. The truth has nothing to fear from fair-minded examination, the truth will win through. Only falsehood fears such thorough examination, only falsehood needs to fear openness and cower behind censorship.

Please do not rush into any decision, the fence is safer than the wrong side. Only you can decide which side you belong, but my advice is take a few months to make an informed decision. A good place to start is the history of the organisation, to understand who, where and why each teaching came from. We can recommend some good reading.

Agape means unconditional love, not conditional on colour, creed, religion or organisation. Jesus says we must love our enemies. Speak soon.

20

How Would You Prove That JWs Are Frauds?

by minimus in

jw
friends

jws are supposed to interested in performing a "lifesaving work" but the truth is they are more interested in finding not-at-homes than actual people.

and if they do find people, chances are that getting this most important message out to them will not occur because, unless they're invalids, they'll be out when you drop by.

if you don't see a return visit----face to face----for many months, that's not unusual.

jaffacake

The Don Cameron approach is good. If they were appointed as God's organisation in Spring 1919 following Christs return in 1914, JW oficial teachiing is that this was on the basis of the spiritual food they were dispensing down to 1919 (six volumes of studies in the scriptures and the seventh volume - finished mystery) Then lets examine that food now to get a sense of what Jesus would have based his decision on.

We would find pyramidology, occultism, masonic symbolism and imagery, not to mention hundreds of false prophecies, predictions and wrong interpretations of scripture. I have got old copies of some of these volumes to see just how wrong they have been. I am truly staggered.

28

End of a Friendship

by Dragonlady76 in

jw
friends

.

ever had a close friendship end with out really knowing what you did wrong?.

it seems like, i have lost a good friend, not sure why, i guess that part is really bothering me right now.

jaffacake

Yes, that is what brought me to this site earlier this year. My friend and I have been like brothers since the age of 12 (I'm now 47). The friendship has ended because he became a JW.

I came here to understand, and ask for help. I left it too late. If I had seen the warning signs a year earlier there would have been a happy ending. The up side is I made many friends here, and I still haven't quite given up.

18

Goodbye all - its been fun

by Qcmbr in

jw
friends

i'll be leaving jwd just 30 odd posts short of leveling up!!

i won't be gone totally just i'll visit here very infrequently.

i have a growing workload and i am getting snowed under.

jaffacake

I will miss your posts, you've made some great points and made me think a lot..

I'd rather be a mormon than a JW. But why anyone has to be bound by any religion seems to be something to do with human need. You're a good guy with a boatload of talent and goodness. I envy you in a way, because you are so sure you are in the only true religion. I wish I had such a comfortable place to be - I did when I was younger as a seventh day adventist, til one day I was brave enough to accept the small possibility that I was not in the truth after all, I was brave or foolish enough to open the door just a smidgeon and the light flooded in and washed away by innocent delusions.

God bless you and yours.