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if you do pray, will you use the name that's above all other names....says the watchtower.. if not, what name do you use?.
in all the Septuagints of this period (before 150 CE) there are none with the name kurios (Lord) instead of the tetragram.
Inq. I wonder if I was getting confused with the pronunciation having died out, except by the High priest, well before Jesus' time? I certainly have this documented - its even in the current JW Divine Name booklet here in front of me, page 14.
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if you do pray, will you use the name that's above all other names....says the watchtower.. if not, what name do you use?.
Inq.
Just lost another ebay auction for a kingdom interlinear, just gonna have to bid very high next time. The local JW PO didn't get me a copy, possibly because he is Greek, and an expert on j-references, he knows what I can prove with the right Watchtower Bibles. I am a potential opposer and to quote the Watchtower "not entitled to the truth".
I'm now bidding for another kingdom interlinear !
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if you do pray, will you use the name that's above all other names....says the watchtower.. if not, what name do you use?.
and then tell me that the divine name doesn't in the Greek Scriptures. There's proof with extra-Biblical sources!
I looked up the UPDATED INFORMATION and find no Divine Name in Christian Greek Scriptures, all I see is reference to the OT in Greek (the Septuagint or LXX) Maybe I've missed something - lots of information! Bye for now inquirer...and thanks for the new links.
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if you do pray, will you use the name that's above all other names....says the watchtower.. if not, what name do you use?.
Re your previous post.... When... but when does a name ever mean a personal name! It must mean it sometimes! Does it ever mean "Jehovah" personally? Or do we just keep calling him God?
Before I met my first Jehovah's Witness a year ago, I was not familiar with the term 'personal name'. Does the Bible ever use the term? The personal name was, and is, very important to the Jews. I believe the NT teaches us that the personal name was for the Nation of Israel, but the NT is not addressed to a nation, but to individuals, Jew & gentile, male & female, slave & free. I believe all Christians were offered sonship with God, so we dont call a parent by a personal name, but Father.
I don't accept Fred Franz 237 insertions, especially where there is not even OT quotations, where they were simply to bolster Rutherford's doctrines. Even so do you wonder why the name of Jesus and Christ completely dominates even the NWT, with several books ignoring any form of the Divine Name completely. Jesus certainly outnumbers the name Jehovah many times over in even the JW NT, so why does the opposite ratio exist in post-1931 Watchtowers?
I think there is a place for the personal name, but can't comprehend why the creator would consider the spelling and pronunciation important.
Do you have the Watchtower CD? Please look up Watchtower 1973 Feb 15 "Why does faith in the Name of Jesus Bring Life?"
Also 1973, May 1 "What does God's Nmae Mean to you?" I don't agree with these articles, but they explain the Biblical meaning of the word 'name'.
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if you do pray, will you use the name that's above all other names....says the watchtower.. if not, what name do you use?.
Appendix C, p 249. I've read that tetragrammaton book. He's definetly done his homework, but I hate it how he doesn't draw to any conclusions. And why doesn't he talk about the fact it says "hallelujah" 4 times ni Revelation?
If you want conclusions drawn, Ray Franz spells it out very eloquently. The book on the website I wanted you to read does talk about the hallelujah in Revelation, as does the Ray Franz book. Again you seem to be suggesting the authors don't consider the Divine Name to be important. The book The Tetragrammaton and the Christian Greek Scriptures deals with all this, and the stuff on the website you have shown me today. It took me a month to work my way through the evidence in the Lunaquist book.
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if you do pray, will you use the name that's above all other names....says the watchtower.. if not, what name do you use?.
Inq -- He has a FAQ on his site regarding the divine name! Here is what I was talking about last post. http://gertoux.online.fr/divinename/faq/A20.htm
Oh, you were quoting from the gertoux book, I was looking for the quote in the booklet on the site I had mentioned. I have definately read many several sources that confirm the Tetragrammaton was replaced by the Jews in the centuries before Christ. Even the Franz book says so. Only the Priests, especially the High Priest was allowed to say the Name. Looks like there is some disagreement on this specific point. I'll do more research.
jaffacake, i think you were once a seventh day adventist.
if i am wrong please correct me.
my best friend is a seventh day adventist.
Kazar
I was never a JW. My best friend since I was 13 (I'm now 47) was an athiest, whilst I was a SDA. He may have been one of the 'worldly' influences when I faded from the SDA religion. I think my biggest doubt was about Ellen G White being God's messenger with the gift of prophecy. I may have been proved right when it was discovered later (1980s) that some of her writings were not originally hers!
Anyway, I was not very religious the last 25 years or so, but I remained quite a moral and Christian-like person. My friend and his wife (and two youngest kids) became JWs gradually over past 3 years. We had been so close - each others best man etc...He didn't take the JW thing seriously until the past year. I thought it quite harmless & similar to SDA. I thought it would do him some good because he had been into psychics spiritualism fortune tellers etc. Suddenly I researched and realised what he was getting into - I was too late.
I have discovered wonderful people of many denominations 'well versed in scripture' but all with different understandings, all sincere but could they all be right? I had just about given up on arguing about what the Bible means, what with all its contradictions, then I read this wonderful book. For me it was an important breakthrough and may have saved my faith, but it might be too big a leap for a practising SDA. Let me know if the link doesn't work.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0281056803/ref=pd_rhf_p_1/202-9176795-3064604
here's a gem from a jw group on myspace.
http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewthread&entryid=5886853&adtopicid=27&categoryid=0&issticky=0&groupid=100229164&mytoken=20050903180812.
okay so i know this doesn't directly effect me because i don't quite drive yet, but indirectly it does effect me.
Luke 21:8
When Christ foretold the coming of false Messiahs, he spoke also of men who would come saying:
“the time is very near now”, and he counselled “never follow men like that”.
Matthew 24:11 & 23
“and many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.”
(Ecclesiastes 7:10) 10 Do not say: “Why has it happened that the former days proved to be better than these?” for it is not due to wisdom that you have asked about this.
(Ecclesiastes 1:9-11) 9 That which has come to be, that is what will come to be; and that which has been done, that is what will be done; and so there is nothing new under the sun. 10 Does anything exist of which one may say: “See this; it is new”? It has already had existence for time indefinite; what has come into existence is from time prior to us. 11 There is no remembrance of people of former times, nor will there be of those also who will come to be later. There will prove to be no remembrance even of them among those who will come to be still later on.
(2 Thessalonians 2:1-2) 2 However, brothers, respecting the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we request of YOU 2 not to be quickly shaken from YOUR reason nor to be excited either through an inspired expression or through a verbal message or through a letter as though from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here.
bin laden was responsible for the attacks on 9/11 in which thousands lost their lives.
katrina was an act of god.
not only has katrina also killed thousands it has also destroyed the homes and jobs of hundreds of thousands.
Katrina was an act of God. Not only has Katrina also killed thousands it has also destroyed the homes and jobs of hundreds of thousands. God was responsible for this.
I suppose having led such a sheltered life (as a JW?) you may actually believe that most Christians believe that God is controlling nature - like by magic? Please don't tar all Christians with the same brush. After all, what you describe is the fashionable modern perspective - fundamentalism. But in reality, this is a minority Christian perspective.
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if you do pray, will you use the name that's above all other names....says the watchtower.. if not, what name do you use?.
-- Yeah... I double-checked the divine name book. I don't know why he says it but he says "However this part of the gospel of John quoted a verse from the book of Isaiah and in all the Septuagints of this period (before 150 CE) there are none with the name kurios (Lord) instead of the tetragram. For example..."
Hi Inquirer,
I've been looking for this. Could you confirm which book, and which chapter I can find it in please.
BTW the Tetragrammaton book - (360 pages so I dont suggest you print it) is really thorough & was checked by JWs
