jaffacake

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Posts by jaffacake

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  6

  Watchtower exposes "apostate" teaching of 2 classes of Christians

  by jaffacake in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the foundation of the great apostasy was laid in the separation of a class (called clergy) from the church of believers in general... this was not done in a day, but gradually.

  those who had been chosen from their own number, by the various congregations, to minister, or serve them in spiritual things, gradually came to consider themselves a superior class.... next they felt it beneath their dignity to be elected by the congregations they were to serve...their councils ..came finally to decreeing what should be considered orthodox... this self exalted clergy, becoming more and more vain and boastful, finally concluded that they alone constituted the church, and that the laity... were not to be classed as joint heirs... to the promises of coming glory and honor and association with christ...

  [emphasis added]

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  jaffacake

  The Heading should have read Watchtower 1889
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  6

  Watchtower exposes "apostate" teaching of 2 classes of Christians

  by jaffacake in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the foundation of the great apostasy was laid in the separation of a class (called clergy) from the church of believers in general... this was not done in a day, but gradually.

  those who had been chosen from their own number, by the various congregations, to minister, or serve them in spiritual things, gradually came to consider themselves a superior class.... next they felt it beneath their dignity to be elected by the congregations they were to serve...their councils ..came finally to decreeing what should be considered orthodox... this self exalted clergy, becoming more and more vain and boastful, finally concluded that they alone constituted the church, and that the laity... were not to be classed as joint heirs... to the promises of coming glory and honor and association with christ...

  [emphasis added]

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  jaffacake

  *** The

  The foundation of the great apostasy was laid in the separation of a class (called clergy) from the church of believers in general... this was not done in a day, but gradually. Those who had been chosen from their own number, by the various congregations, to minister, or serve them in spiritual things, gradually came to consider themselves a superior class.... Next they felt it beneath their dignity to be elected by the congregations they were to serve...Their councils ..came finally to decreeing what should be considered orthodox... this self exalted clergy, becoming more and more vain and boastful, finally concluded that they alone constituted the Church, and that the laity... were not to be classed as joint heirs... to the promises of coming glory and honor and association with Christ...

  [Emphasis Added]

  But then, in 1935...new light....
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  45

  If JWs Are A Cult, I Believe Roman Catholicism Is Too

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i believe that jehovah's witnesses are a "cult".

  to be a "good roman catholic" you have to be "cultic", that's for sure!

  their beliefs and practices, rites and ceremonies are simply weird!

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  jaffacake

  Yeah, zen is right. And I suppose the most important issue is how much potential for harm a religion has. Yes its weird, but fairly harmless these days except for the guilt trips. You can stay away from a catholic church for 50 years having lived an immoral life, and just walk back in, no questions asked, and be treated the same as ayone else. I'm not saying whether this is right or wrong, just the way it is. They tend not to judge 'cos thats Jesus' job.
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  45

  I WENT TO THE MEMORIAL LAST NIGHT.....

  by Mary in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  and i think that the wts's "waters are drying up".

  we had two congregations meet and the hall still wasn't full!

  i noticed a change in the talk from last year.

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  jaffacake

  Wow, so does the Bible definately confirm Judas was present and partook? How does WTS get around thia anomaly??
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  45

  I WENT TO THE MEMORIAL LAST NIGHT.....

  by Mary in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  and i think that the wts's "waters are drying up".

  we had two congregations meet and the hall still wasn't full!

  i noticed a change in the talk from last year.

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  jaffacake

  I knew nothing about JWs 6 months ago, except my friend since childhood & his wife have been getting more & more into it. I started researching Bible, Watchtower history & realised the danger. I stepped in too late. His wife gets baptised on sunday, and him in June. I made the mistake of giving him a 20 page dossier of my research & questions & invited him to read & get some answers for me. Before he could read it his wife handed it over to elders, since then (January) I was cut off. I'm now showing interest in JWs & went to memorial last night. Me & my friend went out for a meal but ended up arguing (apologies exchanged this morning) My friends congregation are making him keep me at arms length & they passed my dossier to an elder from a diff cong, nearer to my home to meet with me, tomorrow. (He showed up once when I was out & my catholic wife sent him packing, lol.

  I'll show friendly interest & ask a lot of hard questions over for as many weeks as he'll listen. I'll try to witness to him but I'll probably get eaten alive. You never know, I might just sow a seed of doubt for the future.
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  45

  I WENT TO THE MEMORIAL LAST NIGHT.....

  by Mary in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  and i think that the wts's "waters are drying up".

  we had two congregations meet and the hall still wasn't full!

  i noticed a change in the talk from last year.

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  jaffacake

  just human, oops missed my post. just to thank you for those verses, can't wait to see my JW friend, wow.

  zen nudist, my 1st ever visit to KH last night, my 1st ever meeting with an elder tommorow. Yeah, in the chat before the service, some nice bloke went on and on about the 11 Apostles. Why is this such a big deal then?
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  45

  If JWs Are A Cult, I Believe Roman Catholicism Is Too

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i believe that jehovah's witnesses are a "cult".

  to be a "good roman catholic" you have to be "cultic", that's for sure!

  their beliefs and practices, rites and ceremonies are simply weird!

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  jaffacake

  As someone brought up a catholic, I agree with franklin. I believe they were a cult in history, but don't even qualify for high control group status these days. My sis-in-law is terminally ill and her priest has been out to see her. He told her how important it is to believe in God and his son Jesus, and then said no one, not even the pope really knows for sure what happens to us when we die...Having chatted to this guy, modern catholicism struggles to even qualify as dogmatic.
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  23

  I can't get the Memorial song out of my head!!!

  by ohiocowboy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  argh!!!

  since i woke up this morning, i have been finding myself humming the song for the memorial tonight.

  it is really freaky.

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  jaffacake

  My 1st ever memorial last night, 1st time in a kingdom hall, so both songs were new and strange to me. I must say people were very friendly. I started life as a catholic, then worshipped with a few different Christian congregations, but nothing much for many years. I have to say in all honesty that despite the welcome, there was clearly something missing from the atmosphere, never more evident than in the singing. The fruits of love and joy I've experienced in other Christian congregations seem to have been replaced by politeness and duty in the kingdom hall. Just my observation. Perhaps it was something to do with the guilt or the burden of sin that I thought only the catholics had. Or not having the knowledge of everlasting life? They clearly explained (with some rapid Bible hop-skotch) that none present were under the new covenant. I was the only one who flickered.

  John 5:24 "Most truly I say to you, he that hears my word and believes Him that sent me has everlasting life, and he does not come into judgemet but has passed over from death to life."

  1 John 5:10-13 ?The one who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; and the witness is this, that God has given us eternal life???he who has the son has the life?These things I have written to you in order that you may know that you have eternal life.?
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  22

  Been searching scriptures for "salvation"

  by jaffacake in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i?ve been given a nwt bible, but don't understand how jws believe as they do.

  why does the ?bible topics for discussion?

  include some issues, eg celebrating birthdays, that seem less important compared with the question of how to attain salvation.

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  jaffacake

  Many thanks Leolaia,

  I may have to study some history. 2 Clement is unfamiliar, is this Gnostic Gospels? I may need an idiot's guide to some of this. Is it safe to conclude that on salvation, the aspect about eternal life as sons of God, there are real contradictions of doctrine between Paul, James, the author of Matthew etc. Is the Bible not inspired, but rather contradictory doctrines? That would certainly explain the lack of agreement in interpretations.
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  35

  I hope this memorial doesnt backfire ...........

  by fleaman uk in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well,ive decided to go tomorrow night after all.not to my local cong but another one in the city where i have a very good friend and a few distant family members.i dont agree with much of the orgs teachings or promotions,but i do believe in jesus and really just have a very,very powerful urge to pay my respects to him.. i have been telling my "worldly"girlfriend about the religion and naturally,she is quite interested as this was part of my life since an early age.. blow me down she really wants to come with me!so when she walks into the hall tomorrow and gets a very warm welcome it will possibly shock her,after some of the stranger stories i have told her about the faith(vague stories including no xmas,disfellowshipping,no after school activities etc).i have told her that the welcome she receives will be warm and imho genuine too.she is quite a spiritual person anyway and will enjoy the occasion.. my worry would be that she will enjoy it too much and go to a follow up.it is quite probable.she has never had anything to do with jw,s before, till going out with yours truly .. i,m interested in your comments?.

  thanks for listening.

  flea.

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  jaffacake

  Fleaman,

  Never a witness, but once something similar, but not quite as extreme. We were "a peculiar people" "a remnant" called out in the last days as the only true religion in a time of widespread apostasy. We even spread the ministry door to door and by other means. We grew as a religion even faster than JWs and reached more on earth in more languages. Our hall choir was called "the last generation choir". Adventists gave the JWs most of their doctrines - sorry (the 1914 one was worked out by an englishman decades before Russell was even born). An important difference, the personal relationship with Christ, the one mediator for all humanity. I drifted away in my late teens, scared of the pressure to go into the ministry. I only just learned they aren't in "the truth" when researching recently to try to convince my friend that JWs are not what they claim to be.