Posts by jaffacake

6

Putting Christ Back In Christmas, Is Jesus the Reason for the Season?

by DevonMcBride in

jw
friends

putting christ back in christmas: is jesus the reason for the season?

austine cline

is jesus the reason for the season?

jaffacake

Christmas is a time when I think of the birth of the Messiah a lot and what it meant. My kids also enjoy carol singing to raise money for a local orphanage & do a tour of old folks homes, hospitals etc.

We also spend time getting carried along with the secular side, but we try to achieve a balance.

Although December the 25th is probably not the date of Christ's birth, the important thing to remember is 'what' the date and the celebration actually represents. When Christians join together in an attitude of worship at this time of the year, they are simply thanking God for this special event, in the same way that the angels praised God when they appeared to the shepherds after Christ's birth on that first Christmas:

"And the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of a great joy which shall be for all the people; for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Saviour, who is Christ the Lord. And this will be a sign for you: you will find a baby wrapped in cloths, and lying in a manger." And suddenly there appeared with the angel a multitude of heavenly hosts praising God, and saying, "Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace among men with whom He is pleased." (Luke 2:10-14).

It appears that the true reason the Watchtower object to Christmas is that the celebration marks a time when people worship Christ. The Watchtower strongly object to the worship of Christ as can be seen by the following quote:

"...it is unscriptural for worshippers of the living and true God to render worship to the Son of God, Jesus Christ." (Watchtower, 1 Nov., 1964, p. 671.)

. But contrary to the opinion of the Watchtower, it is certainly scriptural to worship Jesus Christ (eg. Matt. 14:33; 28:9, 17; John 5:23; 9:38; Heb. 1:6; Rev. 5:8-14). Worship of Christ is surely the correct, biblical thing to do, not just at Christmas but at all times.

6

The Baptism Oath

by YoursChelbie in

jw
friends

does anyone have a current "oath" that the baptism candidates are asked to recite just before they line up to get immersed in water?

i'm interested in the exact wording of it and if there have been any recent changes in it.. any help is much appreciated.

yc

jaffacake

Watchtower 1 July 1955 page 411

“A Christian cannot be baptized in the name of the one actually doing the immersing or in the name of any man, nor in the name of any organisation, but in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. This shows, amongst other things, that Christianity is not a denominational affair”.

Watchtower 1 October 1966 page 603

“We do not dedicate ourselves to a religion, nor to a man, nor to an organisation. No, we dedicate ourselves to the Supreme Sovereign of the Universe, our Creator, Jehovah God Himself. This makes dedication a very personal relationship between us and Jehovah.

According to Matthew’s Gospel, Jesus Christ told his disciples to baptize persons “in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit” In the Apostolic days, Peter and others called on people to “repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus the Messiah for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

People were baptized into Christianity in similar ways to this for 1,900 years. For more than 100 years the Watchtower followed this Scriptural example as confirmed by the Watchtower CD:

Why, in June 1985, were the questions changed to remove “the Holy Spirit” against Christ’s clear command?

There was no explanation, just a comment in the 15 April 1987 Watchtower that the questions were “simplified” and reference to person being baptised “coming into intimate relationship with God and his earthly organisation.” Scriptures stress that baptism is into Christ only, and excludes earthly people even the Apostles:

1 Corinthians 1:13

“Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul?”

So why the reversal from the scriptural position stressed in the 1955 and 1966 Watchtowers?

Why is an earthly organisation led by fallible men now inserted into the “personal relationship with Jehovah”?

Should we really ignore Christ’s command and replace the Holy Spirit with a human organisation?

Is this another reason why millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses believe Watchtower leaders are now acting as idol gods?

Matthew 12:32

“And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.”

Holy Spirit: Baptizing In The Name Of

The holy spirit, which Jehovah prophesied that he would pour out in the last days, has not ceased to operate, for the remnant are still baptizing disciples of Christ in the name of that spirit. (Holy Spirit, 1976; pp. 148)

4

What did Charles Russell teach on judicial committees, and more!

by Seeker4 in

jw
friends

a few quotes from the book: .

what pastor russell said questions and answers .

question (1916)--1-- what position should we take in respect to military duty, and so forth?.

jaffacake

Great stuff Seeker. I have not heard of this book, where did it come from?

26

What's the commun denominator in every JW?

by JH in

jw
friends

?

jaffacake

I believe there are three:

fear
hate
sincerity

73

D'Fing and Love

by I-CH-TH-U-S in

jw
friends

i once talked to a jw about disfellowshipping and was curious to how can this be showing a christly love when you all out turn your back on them.

he gave me an answer about rightousness and unrightrousness having no fellowship (which is biblical) but it didnt make sense to me.

didnt seem applicable in many ways.

jaffacake

In my limited experience and understanding, there are many things I don't understand:

Why a JW does not get disfellowshipped for things clearly condemned in the Bible, yet he would presumably get disfellowshipped for celebrating family birthdays, which is clearly not condemned in the Bible.

Is this disfellowshipping Scriptural? Is it more important to obey men than Scriptures?

I mean, can you imagine reading in the New Testament about some Christian being disfellowshipped for sending a gift to a family member to celebrate their birthday?

3

Watchtower Charter still says Worship Christ

by jaffacake in

jw
friends

my thanks to jw facts who provided a link on a recent d/fing thread.

this is excellent stuff.

i knew the watchtower society was set up to promote the worship of jesus, and that this remained its purpose under rutherford.. but now i learn that the watchtower charter, last updated under knorr in 1945, still includes worship of christ.

jaffacake

My thanks to JW facts who provided a link on a recent D/Fing thread. This is excellent stuff. I knew the Watchtower Society was set up to promote the worship of Jesus, and that this remained its purpose under Rutherford.

But now I learn that the Watchtower Charter, last updated under Knorr in 1945, still includes worship of Christ.

In 1945 Knorr amended the Watchtower Charter. Included within the new Charter is the statement that the purpose of the Watchtower Society is to promote the worship of Jehovah and Jesus. This charter is a legal document that continues to be the Watchtower Charter to this day. The 1945 Yearbook includes the Charter in full for anyone that would like to read it in the Society’s own publications. Part of the current charter states as follows;

“The purposes of this Society are: To act as the servant of and the legal world-wide governing agency for that body of Christian persons known as Jehovah's Witnesses to preach the gospel of God's kingdom under Christ Jesus unto all nations as a witness to the name, word and supremacy of Almighty Good JEHOVAH; to print and distribute Bibles and to disseminate Bible truths in various languages by means of making and publishing literature containing information and comment explaining Bible truths and prophecy concerning establishment of Jehovah's kingdom under Christ Jesus to authorize and appoint agents, servants, employees, teachers, instructors, evangelists, missionaries and ministers to go forth to all the world publicly and from house to house to preach and teach Bible truths to persons willing to listen by leaving with such persons said literature and by conducting Bible studies thereon to improve men, women and children mentally and morally by Christian missionary work and by charitable and benevolent instruction of the people on the Bible and incidental scientific, historical and literary subjects to establish and maintain private Bible schools and classes for gratuitous instruction of men and women in the Bible, Bible literature and Bible history; to teach, train, prepare and equip men and women as ministers, missionaries, evangelists, preachers, teachers and lecturers to provide and maintain homes, places and buildings for gratuitous housing of such students, lecturers, teachers and minister; to furnish gratuitously to such students, lecturers, teachers, educators and ministers suitable meals and lodging and to prepare, support, maintain and send out to various parts of the world Christian missionaries, teachers and instructors in the Bible and Bible literature and for public Christian worship of Almighty God and Christ Jesus; to arrange for and hold local and world-wide assemblies for such worship to use or operate radio broadcasting stations for preaching this gospel of the kingdom; and to do any and all other lawful things that its Board of Directors shall deem expedient for the purposes stated."

Wow - My thanks to JW facts

128

Is there any hope of you coming back to Jehovah?

by LeftBehind in

jw
friends

my brother is a self proclaimed apostate.

i see now that there is a wide variety of posters here.

so to those that have left the witnesses what would it take to get you back?

jaffacake

Hello Cocoon,

How do I find your website please?

73

D'Fing and Love

by I-CH-TH-U-S in

jw
friends

i once talked to a jw about disfellowshipping and was curious to how can this be showing a christly love when you all out turn your back on them.

he gave me an answer about rightousness and unrightrousness having no fellowship (which is biblical) but it didnt make sense to me.

didnt seem applicable in many ways.

jaffacake

They describe D/fing as scriptural, but their are apparent paradoxes and contradictions throughout Scriptures, and need to understand their true meaning. There are also Scriptures against disfellowshiping. My thoughts are:

If this is a Christian organisation, why since the 1930s has the main emphasis been on Pre-Christian scriptures, no longer Christian Scriptures.

A careful study reveals that disfellowshiping was not done for single acts of wrongdoing, but only for repeated and serious wrongdoing.

Why is the religion not Christ-centred, as it was before Rutherford's apostacy?

Matthew 5:43-48
43 “YOU heard that it was said, ‘You must love your neighbour and hate your enemy.’ 44 However, I say to YOU: Continue to love YOUR enemies and to pray for those persecuting YOU; 45 that YOU may prove yourselves sons of YOUR Father who is in the heavens , since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous. 46 For if YOU love those loving YOU, what reward do YOU have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? 47 And if YOU greet YOUR brothers only, what extraordinary thing are YOU doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing?

36

Execution in United States Are You For It?

by jayhawk1 in

jw
friends

from the ap.... raleigh, n.c. - a man who killed his wife and father-in-law pinned his hopes on last-minute intervention from the governor or the courts as he awaited lethal injection early friday in the nation's 1,000th execution since capital punishment resumed in 1977. kenneth lee boyd, set to die at 2 a.m., spent the day receiving visitors, including two sons who watched him gun down their mother and grandfather in 1988. .

my questions are; are you for or against the death penalty?

what was your opinion of the death penalty as a jehovah's witness?.

jaffacake

I am totally opposed to the death penalty for the reasons expressed eloquently by the minority of posters on this thread who think likewise.

Of course I re-examine my opinion, in the heat of the moment, each time a truly terrible crime is committed. But frankly, I cannot see one single bit of good that it does. Perhaps it would make us feel better for a while after an atrocity, but that would be a selfish motive. The only way I could conceivably reconsider, would be if I believed it to be a real deterrant, but clearly it is not.

128

Is there any hope of you coming back to Jehovah?

by LeftBehind in

jw
friends

my brother is a self proclaimed apostate.

i see now that there is a wide variety of posters here.

so to those that have left the witnesses what would it take to get you back?

jaffacake

Me again,

Perhaps you should read Crisis of Conscience by Raymond Franz, if for no other reason, so that you can begin to understand your brother's decision. As for the name 'apostate', have you looked it up in the dictionary? Please don't call your brother names or question his motives, that seems unfair and therefore unchristian.

Awake Magazine 2000 June 22 p. 6 Name-Calling

Some people insult those who disagree with them by questioning character or motives instead of focusing on the facts. Name-calling slaps a negative, easy-to-remember label onto a person, a group, or an idea. The name-caller hopes that the label will stick. If people reject the person or the idea on the basis of the negative label instead of weighing the evidence for themselves, the name-caller’s strategy has worked.

Watchtower Jan 15 1974

When persons are in great danger from a source that they do not suspect or are being misled by those they consider their friends, is it an unkindness to warn them?

They may prefer not to believe the warning. They may even resent it. But does that free one from the moral responsibility to give that warning.

Crisis of Conscience, by Raymond Franz (introduction)

Life is uncertain and when a man dies what he knows dies along with him – unless he passes it on while still in life.

What this book contains is written out of obligation to people whom I sincerely love. In all good conscience I can say that its aim is to help and not to hurt. If some of what is presented is painful to read, it was also painful to write.

It is hoped that the reader will recognize that the search for truth need never be destructive of faith, that every effort to know and uphold truth will, instead, strengthen the basis for true faith. What those reading this information will do with it is, of course, their own decision. At least it will have been said, and a moral responsibility will have been met.