Posts by besty

in any case there are a few who still speak to us (less than 10 altogether but still, bethel take note...) and i had the opportunity to discuss the blood fiasco with one of them recently.

their argument was that even if the wts gets some things wrong, they get a lot right and jehovah will sort it all out.

besty

Not many JW's speak to me - London Penge's Chief Apostate is persona non grata :-)

In any case there are a few who still speak to us (less than 10 altogether but still, Bethel take note...) and I had the opportunity to discuss the blood fiasco with one of them recently. Their argument was that even if the WTS gets some things wrong, they get a lot right and Jehovah will sort it all out. Here's how it went...

Me: So who is reponsible for the dead children because of an ever-changing blood fraction policy?

Them: The nedical people can't guarantee that they would have lived even with blood.

Me: So is it a medical position you are arguing? Doctors give best advice and some cases are very clear cut - take this component and live -don't take it and die... white blood cells and leukemia for example... so who is responsible - are you blaming the doctors?

Them: God will have to fix things in his time.

Me: So some children can live and some can die depending on what the WTS says is acceptable from one year to the next? That doesn't seem like something God would be involved with. In any case I had a chat with an HLC Elder some time back and he admitted there was no Biblical justification for allowing certain fractions.

Them: You have to remember that the WTS helps a lot of people clean up their lives - its not all bad.

Me: So some children have to die so that some drug addicts can clean up? There are alternative belief systems that help people sort their lives out without requiring children to die. Apart from that I can't see the JW belief as Bible-based as about 97.5% of blood is acceptable to them and all of that blood requires storage at some point. Is it abstain from blood and pour it on the ground or not?

Them: Can we change the subject?

Me: Of course <graciously accepts victory>

Seems to be an easy argument to make and hopefully the cognitive dissonance might help a JW down the road they must take.

34

Issue Number 2.... Incorrect Predictions.

by hotchocolate in

okay, just to re-introduce myself, i was raised in the truth, regular pioneered for years, and am a member in good standing with my congregation.

i have just recently been shocked to realise that i actually have some doubts about the truth.

it helps for me to focus on one point at a time, and to write down my thoughts in a logical sequence.

besty

For the first time I feel like a have a moral and spiritual obligation to make sure of things and to really search out what I believe, our generation asks why and how alot.

This forum is not the ideal place to do that, sure you find out some amazing facts and some crazy stories but no answers on which to build a belief system.

The strength of JWD is allowing you to be clear about what not to belief - the way the universe works proving something false is much easier than to prove it true.

So yes I agree that JWD is not helpful for creating a replacement belief system - other than putting you in touch with fellow travellers - no small help in itself.

38

WTBTS refuses to return 100,000 pound donation from DF man

by dozy in

jw
friends

watchtower society declines to return disputed 100,000 legacyby emilie filou, third sector, 13 february 2008 .

the charitable arm of the jehovah's witnesses should return a 100,000 legacy from a man it expelled for trying to convert call girls, one of the man's relatives has said.. martin davis said the watchtower society should return the money left to it by his cousin donald kennett so it could go to kennett's nephew, who is autistic.. accepting money from a member who had been expelled would damage the charity's reputation, said davis, of dulwich, south london.. kennett was befriended by a jehovah's witness in the 80s when recovering from a serious car crash and joined shortly afterwards, davis told third sector.

he was 'disfellowshipped' from his group in stockport in 2001 after members discovered that he was contacting call girls.. when kennett's mother died in 1994, she had left half her estate to him and half to his autistic nephew.

besty

The WTS are almost blaming the Charity Commission for not being 'allowed' to hand the money back to the nephew.

Their argument is that they are not permitted to spend donated money outwith the purposes stated in their charitable application forms. Their only recourse is to make a 'moral obligation' appeal to the Charity Commission for this special case. ie we don't normally give large sums of cash to non JW-s (or anybody for that matter) as that is not the purpose of our charity, but in this case the autistic nephew has a moral right to the money and we'd like to do the right thing.

However the WTS have not made that moral appeal to the CC, and are of course sticking to the letter of the law and saying that donated money must be used within the terms of their charitable objectives.

Pharisees.

38

WTBTS refuses to return 100,000 pound donation from DF man

by dozy in

jw
friends

watchtower society declines to return disputed 100,000 legacyby emilie filou, third sector, 13 february 2008 .

the charitable arm of the jehovah's witnesses should return a 100,000 legacy from a man it expelled for trying to convert call girls, one of the man's relatives has said.. martin davis said the watchtower society should return the money left to it by his cousin donald kennett so it could go to kennett's nephew, who is autistic.. accepting money from a member who had been expelled would damage the charity's reputation, said davis, of dulwich, south london.. kennett was befriended by a jehovah's witness in the 80s when recovering from a serious car crash and joined shortly afterwards, davis told third sector.

he was 'disfellowshipped' from his group in stockport in 2001 after members discovered that he was contacting call girls.. when kennett's mother died in 1994, she had left half her estate to him and half to his autistic nephew.

besty

hey monophonic - its a legacy :-) that means this poor chap is permanently beyond the WTS clutches - unfortunately for him and his family his reputation is sullied by being disfellowshipped - that won't stop the WTS from keeping his financial legacy.

34

Issue Number 2.... Incorrect Predictions.

by hotchocolate in

okay, just to re-introduce myself, i was raised in the truth, regular pioneered for years, and am a member in good standing with my congregation.

i have just recently been shocked to realise that i actually have some doubts about the truth.

it helps for me to focus on one point at a time, and to write down my thoughts in a logical sequence.

besty

God knows whats going on with the formatting - its dropping my quote in above my own post....

34

Issue Number 2.... Incorrect Predictions.

by hotchocolate in

okay, just to re-introduce myself, i was raised in the truth, regular pioneered for years, and am a member in good standing with my congregation.

i have just recently been shocked to realise that i actually have some doubts about the truth.

it helps for me to focus on one point at a time, and to write down my thoughts in a logical sequence.

besty

But one thing the elders were clear on was that the witnesses have never acted in the role of a prophet.

This is a complete lie on their part - either that or they are significantly under-informed.

I will get WT references for you later. They blatantly refer to themselves as God's prophet.

Would you still be able to go back to them with WT quotes? Try this promise from the Creator for starters....(if this isn't fulfilling the definition of a prophet - speaking on behalf of God and interpreting His will to man - then I don't know what is)

Awake! masthead from March 1988 until October 22 1995

Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away.

54

From Rutherford -2008 Watchtower ="dont have kid's till after Armagedon!"

by Witness 007 in

yes i thought rutherford's policy on kid's was dead and the society had wised up....until i read the new "witnesses only" watchtower study magazine...compare.. rutherford's last book "children" 1942 = p.281 "wait until after armagedon to bring children into the world...it is only afew years before the other sheep are gathered to the lord, until armagedon...those with infants during armagedon will have greater woe...it would be a far greater difficulty to care for them during the tribulation.".

watchtower 2008 april 15 p.19 {picture of a middle aged couple witnessing with question: why do some christian couples decide not to have children?

} paragraph 12 "single or childless for a noble purpose.....numerous couples have decided to remain childless....they often do so to remain freer to serve jehovah...they are willing to place kingdom interests above some of the privileges that go with marriage...jehovah will not forget their work, and the love they show for his name...there will be a great tribulation...doubtless, it will be a difficult time for all of us-adults and children alike.".

besty

Good point Midwich - I hadn't thought about the implication of being childless WRT who you leave your money to.

Taking that thought one step further how many of us know gay couples with high net worth/high disposable income? Reason being not having children allows them to focus on their career thus ending up with higher paying jobs.

Add into the mix one parent leaving work to look after kids and the additional costs of raising children over a 25 year period and BOOM - the fianncial implications of having kids are not good :-)

SO - perhaps the WTS is Machiavellian enough to take the long view and discourage having kids knowing that the wills they so love to encourage will be that much more likely and fatter as well...