"The essence of civilization is that the strong have a duty to protect the weak. In cases where there are serious doubts and questions, the presumption should be in the favor of life."
One of the greatest hypocrisies the Bush has ever uttered.
Posts by Spook
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Spook
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Spook
For anyone with a supposed biblical objection to abortion, I refer you to the masterful essay as follows:
http://www.theskepticalreview.com/political/Bible.html
There is no solid basis to oppose abortion in the bible. If you are going to deny that, read the article and provide a well reasoned rejoinder.
My desired stance is as follows:
1. Once a fetus is viable for development outside the womb and apart from the mother, it is a being.
2. Medical science alone determines when the above is the case.
3. Before such a point, abortion is available on demand. After such a point, the available option is removal of the fetus.
4. This would be trumped by a health concern for the mother. The concurrance of medical science and the opinion of the mother would decide what to do in this case.
5. Those who don't like this arrangement can be encouraged to spend their energy on sexual education (not abstinance only, mind you), adoption, and investing in medical research on the issue, rather than parading haunting images about which represent a tiny fraction of actual abortions.
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Explaining the hateful passages of the Bible
by Rex inhere is a link to an author whose books may help you:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/asin/0060762055/ref=ase_agoramedia-20/103-0623759-2877415
bishop shelby spong is of well repute in liberal theological circles.
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Spook
Life is empty and meaningless. The problem people have is that they make that meaningful. You see, it's empty and meaningless that life is empty and meaningless.
That may seem kind of silly, but I'd ask you to consider: If there were a god
1. What would the meaning of her life be?
2. Where did that meaning come from?
3. Does the meaning of your god's life exist apart from god, or is it generated by god?
4. An all powerful god must, by definition, have the power to generate her own meaning.
5. If choosing meaning is meaningful to your concept of the deity, then choosing meaning is meaningful for any conscious being. Or, conversely, if god's life is meaningless, then it isn't a problem if your life is meaningless.
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Explaining the hateful passages of the Bible
by Rex inhere is a link to an author whose books may help you:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/asin/0060762055/ref=ase_agoramedia-20/103-0623759-2877415
bishop shelby spong is of well repute in liberal theological circles.
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Spook
One can either uphold all the bible as the word of a god, and therefore good and right, or not. If one does that, one must admit that the bible contains a hodge-podge of remarkable violent tirades, revengefilled, fantastical rants, and innumerable requirements which shock and disgust modern sentiments.
I assert that if one upholds the whole bible then their morals are by definition arbitrary and only focus on obedience. All christians are buffet christians, picking and choosing interpretations. Given that, the approach that will give joy and beauty in life is closer to Spong than a Hovind or a Robertson. I hold all religious people responsible as the source of what they believe to be good and right, with no appeal to any other authority. If you believe the whole bible, then I assert you believe that genocide, child murder, rape, pillage, plunder, oppression, animal brutality, and slavery are all right and good.
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There is NO GOD!! AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
by GetBusyLiving in.
so how's the weekend going for you guys?
gbl
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Spook
Dogville is great!
And, yes, there is no god. More exactly, the claim that any god exists is not true for all possible gods. But enough linguistics. There is you and there is me. That's enough.
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No Gay Marriage for Iran
by truthseeker inwhile gay canadian's celebrate their new "marriage rights", there is no such celebration of anything gay in iran.. it's interesting to see the extreme contrast between how gay people are treated in the west as opposed to the middle east.. .
report: iran gay teens executed .
by 365gay.com newscenter staff .
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Spook
Not at all to support Iran, since I started a thread with this same story yesterday, but I do want to expand the issue beyond the E/W view. In reality it has nothing to do with geography. My post heading was "Theocracy: When religion has its way."
This conduct is the same as that proposed by many fundamentalists elsewhere in the world from biblical morality. The dividing line for me is not Islam vs. Christianity. It is secular governance vs. theocratic governance.
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Theocracy: When religion has its way.
by Spook inhttp://direland.typepad.com/
the murder of homosexual teens in iran.
sad and disgusting, yet i have little faith that a bible based theocracy would long avoid similar tyranny and oppression.
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Spook
I hear you U/D. One cause of this is that Americans have a great deal more chauvenism and bias than other western nations. I say this after traveling extensively. Many Europeon cultures find it easier to be honest about the impact of their actions.
So, if I cry that the Soviet union engaged in brutal oppression, everyone nods along and I don't have to prove anything. If I say the U.S. engages in brutal oppression, all of a sudden everyone demands a mountain of evidence - and they usually ignore that.
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10
Theocracy: When religion has its way.
by Spook inhttp://direland.typepad.com/
the murder of homosexual teens in iran.
sad and disgusting, yet i have little faith that a bible based theocracy would long avoid similar tyranny and oppression.
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Spook
The murder of homosexual teens in Iran. Sad and disgusting, yet I have little faith that a bible based theocracy would long avoid similar tyranny and oppression. Indeed, look and you will see that many theocrats influencing the US government would like to see homosexuality outlawed.
Sigh.
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An End To Shunning
by Sunspot inwell, in my case anyway.
for those of you that may recall my posts about my family and that after i left the wts, how i wrote long (and painful) letters to my nonjw children among others.
i had tried to explain why i had shunned them and how very sorry i was, and for all the mistakes i had made throughout their childhoods as a jw mother.
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Spook
Hearing people out does wonders. Also, I've found that in cleaning up my wasted youth the important steps are
1. Apologize without reservation. NO BLAMING THE WTS AS AN EXCUSE!!! Accept full responsibility.
2. Acknowledge that the impact must have been devastating, and request to know what it was like.
3. Deal with each specific impact by committing that from here forward those issues will all be transformed.
For me, I have an ex-girlfriend who tried to kill herself because I wouldn't let her in my life after being a JW. That's the next, and hardest, apology for me.
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do JWs believe in dinosaurs?
by tsunami_rid3r inthe bible doesnt mention them at all.
so what the hell?
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Spook
Greendawn,
These arguments are sophistry. In other words, they sound convincing and scientific on the surface level, but there is actually no substance to them. Usually the answer to such a claim is that "it's not nearly so simple as that." Often an error in looking at these sorts of claims can be picked out by seeing that the claim is cartesian in nature. That means that it's sort of a linear expectation of how things should be, such as a measure of salinity or magnetism. Only rarely is this the case in reality.
Indeed, in the cases above, most of the statements on magnetism and salinity are patently untrue. The problem is that it takes ten pages of truth to deal with one sentence of lies.
I really invite you to look into these for yourself from some legitimate sources that aren't even dealing with the issue of YEC or any pro/con theology. As you come to realize how much the sources of this kind of stuff distort things, I think you'll be surprised.