Spook

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Topics Started by Spook

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  4

  JW's and the housing bubble

  by Spook in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  most of my former jw friends in the late 90's and early 00's were working in construction.

  the housing bubble hit them particularly hard because.... they were all selling houses to fellow jw's.

  everybody's plan seemed to be to sell each other houses, profit off the inflating prices and auxilliary pioneer off of your equity.. i don't think that kind of protectionism and isolation can survive this economy.

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  10

  Swine flu and the understanding of science.

  by Spook in

  1. social
  2. current

  i've gotten sick of responding to swine flu posts, so i'll say my peace here:.

  pandemic is a word with a specific meaning.

  words have meanings and it matters.

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  17

  Taxes, tea-parties and the economy

  by Spook in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've jumped in on several threads about the issues contained in the title and not gotten real responses.

  i'm not attributing any meaning to this or saying it means the proponents can't defend this.

  i still want to know from those whose view entails the following set of propositions just what your arguments are.

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  Plantinga / Denett debate NEW science/religion conflict audio

  by Spook in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i thought some people would like to know that alvin plantinga (thiest) and daniel denett (atheist) had a good debate at the recent central meeting of the american philosophical association here in the midwest over the compatability of science and religion.. http://apologetics315.blogspot.com/2009/02/alvin-plantinga-daniel-dennett-debate.html.

  i like this debate because - as opposed to more "popular" debates which just rehash well covered arguments, there are some novel and new arguments presented between these parties that will strike all the self-educated philosophy fans on this board as neat, especially those who are very familiar with the traditional arguments.

  for the uninitiated, these debates invovle some pretty technical and weighty formal language.

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  33

  The Evidence For Evolution (From "why do we say 'I believe evolution'")

  by Spook in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i started this as a new thread because the orignal was getting rather long and distant from the op.

  mad dog and i were circulating what, i maintain (or admit) are some fairly specific grounds for starting the discussion.. he was defending a version of (as i understand it): it is unfounded or irrational to accept the theory of evolution as probably true because either the evidence is insufficient compared to what should be observed according to the theory or the evidence observed, while corresponding to the theory, nevertheless is based on unfounded or irrational assumptions.. he is not saying, as i understand it, the following: there exists some evidence which either falsifies the necessary conditions or some other theory which better fits the data.. i was defending and will defend: it is rational to accept the theory of evolution as probably true because the evidence closely corresponds to and is sufficient compared to what should be observed according to the theory and (if we ever get there) it is irrational to reject or postpone judgement of the theory on these grounds.. i'll certainly leave the last half for now, and cut right to the chase in as terse a way possible to allow a likewise pointed rebuttal.. if the theory of evolution were true.... 1. the necessary condition of variation within a population of organisms should be observed.. 2. the necessary condition of a means of heredity should be observed.. 3. the necessary condition of mechanisms os selection should be observed to act on, within and between populations of organisms.. (these conditions, if proven, satisfy that the theory is at least possibly true, but does not constitute grounds to determine rational belief or disbelief in common descent.).

  4. there should be evidence observable in the present and derivable through repeatable analytic means therefrom that life has existed on earth for a long time with respect to the life span of any known organism.. 5. any evidence for the existance of past life forms which is observable in the present should by comparative anatomy, geographical location, computational dating and other methods correspond to the prediction of the descent of species from common ancestors.. 6. the current biogeographical distribution of species alive today should be observed to correspond to the theory of common descent and also fit the evidence in (5).. 7. given genetics, the observable evidence in (6, some of 5, some of 1-3) should be verified to match any corresponding prediction derived from the theory.. (these observations, a posteriori, would constitute strong evidence for the conclusion that probably, evolution is true and may or may not constitute logical grounds for rational belief depending on exactly how an opposing position is developed.

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  12

  10 Deeper Challenges To Watchtower Theology

  by Spook in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have begun preparing an outline for what i think is an untapped market of opposition to the watchtwoer.

  i will post part one of an outline after this explanation.

  please feel free to pm with additional thoughts.. 1. most criticism of the watchtower in print has either (a) focused on very specific doctrinal issues or (b) socio-theological criticism or (c) apologetics from other christian sources.. 2. there is a pronounced lack of general philosophical arguments directed against the internal logical integrity of the jehovah's witnesses core theological beliefs.

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  JW's called on me today for the first time since I left the organization

  by Spook in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i often thought what i might do or say when jehovah's witnesses finally came to my door.

  i live in urban chicago, so i had until now been imune because of security at appartments (fyi, the vast majority of urban chicago is completely unaddressed by the ministry work.

  laughable.

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  45

  Atheists/Theists: What is the best argument FOR theism (a God's existence) you have heard?

  by Spook in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have lived for the last 3 years with two phd philosophers as roomates, both in the last year of their dissertation at reputable institutions (notre dame, penn/uic respectively).

  they are both moderate semi-christian theists after having been fundamentalists as youths.

  i have a sceince and engineering background and am a naturalist atheist former jw.

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  3

  Secular Progress (Response to Watchtower, feb 1 2008)

  by Spook in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in response to the watchtower's insults to the potential of secular solutions, i submit the following two lists.

  the first list is a collection of benefitial changes to mankind which came about as a primarily secular response against traditional religioius views.

  even those issues which had some faith based support enjoyed this in the face of massive internal conflict and confusion on religions position based off of sacred texts.

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  9

  Spook Vs. Jcanon on the Arguments From Evil

  by Spook in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  jcannon has agreed to a discussion on the philosophical arguments from evil.

  i will be advancing the proposition that the presence of the current level of suffering in the world constitutes strong evidence that the christian god (hereafter referred to as god) does not exist.

  jcannon will be negating the proposition.

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