Posts by acadian

23

3.9% interest

by indahsempurna in

does anyone else find it terrible that the society is charging interest for congregations to build kingdom halls????

why the hell are people putting money in the "special" box marked kingdom hall fund??

my boyfriend who already hates the witnesses found this absolutely horrible.

Welcome to the board !!! "Does anyone else find it terrible that the society is charging interest for congregations to build kingdom halls????" Ecclesiasticus 21:8 (Septuagint - Apocrypha), "He that buildeth his house with other men's money is like one that gathereth himself stones for the tomb of his burial." What is the meaning and origin of the word mortgage? The term mortgage comes from mort and means "death" (as in mortuary or mortality), and gage means "pledge." Mort-gage means a "dead pledge." In Bouvier's Law Dictionary of 1856, Dead-Pledge is defined as "a mortgage of lands or goods." It's a pledge of death because its an engagement in debt, which is a neglect or violation of our duty; we're not supposed to engage in those things. This is why we're not to owe man anything: Romans 13:8, "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another:" There is no love when one neglects or violates the Law of God. The definition from Bouvier's is a full disclosure that one is walking in bondage and death when engaged in mortgages and debt. Nehemiah 5:3-5, "…We have mortgaged our lands, vineyards, and houses…We have borrowed money for the king's tribute, and that upon our lands and vineyards…and, lo, we bring into bondage our sons and our daughters to be servants, and some of our daughters are brought unto bondage already: neither is it in our power to redeem them; for other men have our lands and vineyards." Proverbs 22:7, "The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender." 2 Kings 4:1, "Now there cried a certain woman of the wives of the sons of the prophets unto Elisha, saying, Thy servant my husband is dead; and thou knowest that thy servant did fear the LORD: and the creditor is come to take unto him my two sons to be bondmen." When one enter into debt, who is he a servant to? He is a servant to the merchants of the earth, because their law, the Law Merchant, has full jurisdiction over debt within their system. Between brothers there's not really any debt, because we give and expect nothing in return, for "it is more blessed to give than to receive" (Acts 20:35). But when we're dealing with the natural man and we go in debt with the world, we're entering into a private law, which is known as the lex mercatoria (Law Merchant). The idea of paying interest on anything that is loaned to you is foreign to the Word of God, because interest (usury) is condemned by God (Exodus 22:25-27, Leviticus 25:36-37; 23:19-20, Nehemiah 5:7,10-11, Psalms 15:5, Proverbs 28:8, Isaiah 24:1-3, Ezekiel 18:8,13; 22:12-13). So, when one pays those usury fees (interest) they are partaking of the sin of the merchant who engages in the usury. Simply and directly put: Deuteronomy 15:6; 28:12, “Thou shalt not borrow.” So, what does that make the WTS for charging interest on loans to the congregations? It makes the WTS an EVIL SLAVE!!! Acadian

50

Do we have an idiot running the United States?

by jaguarbass in

jw
friends

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whhbpvrb5km.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moutuefquq4.

is it possible that this guy doesnt know that bin laden is in afghanistan?.

acadian

Out of one cult, and into another...

18

Typing ability

by greendawn in

jw
friends

when i first started on this forum typing was not really a natural activity for me it was slow and i didn't have the patience to write long posts as i would have liked.

now i got used to it a lot better so i don't mind typing long posts more often.

what sort of experiences do other jwd members?

acadian

My tpynig ailbtiy is elxclenlt and lgiihng fsat, but my sleplnig sckus !

64

Time to make my thoughts known......

by R.F. in

i have lurked around here for a little while and i've finally seen the need to post.

i'm 22 years old and a ministerial servant and pioneer in my congregation.

i'm not really here to knock the organization, but i must admit that there are some things(ex.

acadian

Hello RF, Here's a thought most don't think about... If the church is the body of the Christ, then you can say that the church is incorporated in the Christ. And the head of the church is the Christ and the church recieves it's Authority from Christ. Thats the true church. Now, if a church is a 501 c 3 corporation, then that church is incorporated into the state that created it. The head of that "State incorporated church" is the "State" and the Authority over that church is the "State" not the Christ. So, if the church is incorporated in Christ, then they are under Christ Authority, but if they are incorporated with the State, then they have denigned the Christ and are under State Authority not Christ's. You can't serve two master's In truth the WTS has aligned themselves with the "Beast" which is the government. They sold their birthright for a pot of porridge by accepting benifits and privelage's from government by becomming a "501 c 3" non-Prophet corporation. Rather than trusting in God and his Christ, they have put their trust in man and his government. They have NO Authority from God or his Christ, they are an ABOMINATION in God's eyes. Acadian .

32

LESSONS FROM HISTORY

by Doug Mason in

lessons from history .

i have a few reasons for providing the information that follows: .

* a very recent posting mentioned eschatologists of the 19th century (1800s) who provided ctr with his ideas on the interpretation of last-day prophecies.

acadian

Good points Gill,

As a matter of fact the WTS is in violation of God's Law not to create an Image/Idol of anything, so what is a corpoation? Here's an excerpt from the article "The Truth About Church Incorporation" no author listed
"So what exactly is incorporation? What really happens to a church that becomes incorporated? Are there biblical principles against incorporation?
First of all, let us define the word "corporation." In the strict everyday definition of the word, a corporation is "a group of people combined into or acting as one body." This word is derived from the Latin word "corpus," which means "body." In this sense, the Christian Church is indeed a corporation. It is the "corpus Christi," the "Body of Christ." It derives its existence and authority from its Head, the risen and victorious Son of God. It is comprised of individual members who have covenanted together to further Christ's Kingdom by the preaching of the Gospel and the discipling of the nations (Matthew 28:19-20).
Christ is Sovereign over his Church
The Church's "corporate status" is well-established in Scripture: Matthew 16:18, 1 Corinthians 12:12-14, 27, Ephesians 1:22; 5:23b, 30, Colossians 1:18; 2:19 teach that Christ is clearly the head of the church, and we are all members of his body.
The Church is the visible manifestation of Christ's Kingdom on earth. However, as Jesus Himself stated, "My Kingdom is not of this world" (John 18:36). Many Christians have misunderstood this verse to mean that neither the Church nor individual Christians should involve themselves with the affairs of the world. In what is known as "pietism," a false dichotomy is erected between the "spiritual" Kingdom and the "carnal" world.
Of course, this is not what Jesus had in mind at all. He very explicitly stated elsewhere that Christians are to act as the "salt" of the earth and as a "light" in the world by permeating society and working to change it from within (Mat.5:13-16). This task of dominion is accomplished through the work of evangelism and discipleship, as Jesus commanded in the Great Commission. The Christian's purpose is indeed "worldly," insofar as it is involved in bringing the world into subjection to the Word of God (2 Cor.10:5).
Thus, the true meaning of Jesus' declaration that His Kingdom is "not of this world," is that it does not derive its authority and power from the world or its institutions. The Church is indeed a spiritual organization, but this simply means that it is "of the Spirit"-- it relies upon the Holy Spirit and the inspired Word for its existence, not upon the efforts or laws of men. This important detail should be kept in mind as we further study the subject of church incorporation.
The State is Sovereign over its Corporations
Having briefly examined the biblical definition of a corporation, let us now look at the legal definition of a corporation. According to the U.S. Supreme Court:
1. "A corporation is a creature of the state. It is presumed to be incorporated for the benefit of the public. It receives certain special privileges and franchises and holds them subject to the laws of the state and the limitation of its charter. Its powers are limited by law. It can make no contract not authorized by its charter. Its rights to act as a corporation are only preserved to it so long as it obeys the laws of its creation. There is a reserved right in the legislature to investigate its contracts and ascertain if it has exceeded its powers" (Hale v. Henkel, 201 U.S. 43).
2. "[A corporation is] an artificial person or legal entity created by or under the authority of the laws of a state. An association of persons created by statute as a legal entity.... The corporation is distinct from the individuals who comprise it (shareholders).... Such an entity subsists as a body politic under a special denomination, which is regarded in law as having a personality and existence distinct from that of its several members." Black's Law Dictionary West Publishing Company, 1991; 6th Edition, page 340.
3. "A corporation derives its existence and all of its powers from the State and, therefore, has only such powers as the State has conferred upon it. Power is used here to mean the legal capacity to execute and fulfill the objects and purposes for which the corporation was created, and the source of this power is the charter and the statute under which the corporation was organized." Len Young Smith and G. Gale Roberson, Smith and Roberson's Business Law, West Publishing Company, 1966, page 796.
Note: A corporation is created by, and derives its existence from, the State. In contrast, the church is created by, a creature of, derives its existence from, subject to, and obeys the Law of, Jesus Christ.
4. "Corporate existence is a privilege granted by the sovereign upon compliance with specified conditions" Len Young Smith and G. Gale Roberson, Smith and Roberson's Business Law, West Publishing Company, 1966, page 931. .
5. "Corporations are not citizens.... The term citizen... applies only to natural persons... not to artificial persons created by the legislature" Paul v. Virginia, 8 Wall. 168, 177; see also the Opinion of Field, J., in the Slaughterhouse Cases, 16 Wall.36,99.
Note: God teaches that Christians, his church, are citizens of the household of God (Eph.2:19, Phil.3:10).
6. Every corporation has obtained a charter from the State of Incorporation. This charter is simply permission to exist given to the corporation, without which, its operations would be considered illegal. In addition to the charter are the articles of incorporation: "The objects or purposes for which a corporation is formed are expressly stated in its articles of incorporation, which delineate in general language the type of business activities in which the corporation proposes to engage" Smith and Roberson's Business Law, West Publishing Company, 1966, page 798.
Note: Is the church of God involved in any type of business activities? (Matthew 21:12, John 2:16).
7. "Instances of non-profit corporations are educational institutions, athletic clubs, library clubs, fraternities, sororities, hospitals, and organizations which have exclusively a charitable purpose" Smith and Roberson's Business Law, West Publishing Company, 1966, page 789.
The reader will notice that "churches" are conspicuously absent from this list of non-profit corporations. That is because our law-makers are fully aware that incorporation involves creation, and the Church simply cannot be created by the State. Furthermore, the Church's ordained purpose of preaching the Gospel can never be illegal, so no special license is required from the State to do so.
Though not all of our founding fathers were genuine Christians, they nevertheless understood that the Church of Christ is under the sole jurisdiction of its Lord, and that the civil magistrate therefore should not dare to encroach upon that authority. Because of this healthy respect for the Church, the very first sentence of the Bill of Rights reads as follows:
"Congress shall make no law regarding an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" (U.S. Constitution, First Amendment).
According to Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black: "The establishment clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the federal government can set up a church" Everson v. Board of Education, 1947). Is a Church required to Incorporate under the Government?
According to the Internal Revenue Code, "a church, its integrated auxiliaries, and conventions and associations of the church are excluded from taxation." United States Code, Title 26, § 508(c)(1)(A).
Section 508(c) of the Internal Revenue Code provides that churches are not required to apply for recognition of Section 501(c)(3) status in order to be exempt from federal taxation or to receive tax deductible contributions. Churches are automatically exempt from Federal income tax, and contributions to churches are deductible by donors under section 170.
Elsewhere, the IRS states: "Although a church, its integrated auxiliaries, or a convention of churches is not required to file Form 1023 to be exempt from federal income tax or to receive tax deductible contributions, such an organization may find it advantageous to obtain recognition of exemption (Tax Exempt Status for Your Organization, IRS Publication 557).
Just what "advantage" is there for a church in obtaining 501(c)(3) recognition and thereby exchanging its sovereignty for a subordinate status in relation to the federal government? Most people would answer that such grants the church exemption from taxation. However, we have already seen that the federal government has never been able to tax the Church of Christ; the Church is not exempt from taxation, it is immune. The "advantage" is something else entirely:
"By establishing its exemption, potential contributors are assured by the [Internal Revenue] Service that contributions will be deductible" Tax Exempt Status for Your Organization, IRS Publication 557.
The tragic irony of all this is that, according to the Internal Revenue Code, financial donations to an unregistered, unincorporated church are automatically tax-deductible (26 USC 170-B)! But is this biblical?
"God loveth a cheerful giver." (2 Corinthians 9:7). But the government promises, "Incorporate, and I will return to you up to thirty-five percent of your tithes and offerings!" And the Bridegroom wept. Now Jesus knows that His bride "purposeth in [her] heart . . . grudgingly, or of necessity." (2 Corinthians 9:7). God had no respect towards Cain's offering because he did not give from the heart (Gen.4:3-6).
The IRS, of course, knows very well that it has no constitutional authority over the Church, and that it may not violate the First Amendment protection against government interference with the Church. In fact, the IRS may not violate the constitutionally secured rights of any American Citizen or group of Citizens, and is able to gain jurisdiction only when such is given to it voluntarily. Thus, the IRS holds out the unbiblical "advantage" of 501(c)(3) corporate status as bait to clergy ignorant of the law in hopes that these men will "bite," thereby placing themselves and their congregations firmly on its jurisdictional hook.
Once the bait has been taken, and the catch is reeled in, another church has been transformed into a "legal fiction" subject to the tyrannical control of the federal government. The truth is that "incorporated churches" are not, by definition, churches at all! They are merely "non-profit organizations" (or should I say "non-prophet organizations"). The truth is, any "church" that is incorporated has deposed Jesus Christ from His rightful position as Head over His own Body and has surrendered that Body to the dominion of the State.
The truth is, "incorporated churches" are subject to total governmental control
Should the Bible itself one day be ruled by the government to be "politically incorrect," incorporated churches will find themselves on the horns of a very serious dilemma. After all, in a civil suit, a corporation's defense is limited to the terms specifically enumerated in its charter and articles of incorporation. All other "extrinsic evidence," including the Bible or any historical Christian creeds or standards, will be disallowed in a State court case, because they are "not contained in the body of [the] contract." (Black's Law Dictionary, p. 588). Outside of its own walls, the incorporated church may not stand on the authority of the Scriptures regarding any political or civil issue, because it is bound by the "higher laws" of the State. Consequently, the Christian Church in America, little by little, ceases to be the "salt" and "light" to society that it was commanded to be (Mat.5:13-16). And all this for a simple tax deduction! Because of money! This directly contradicts Jesus' teaching, "make not my Father's house an house of merchandise" (John 2:16)."
End of excerpt.
I say even if everything they say is true (which we know is not the case here), they are a corporation and in violation of God's Law against making images/idols of anything.
Acadian

32

LESSONS FROM HISTORY

by Doug Mason in

lessons from history .

i have a few reasons for providing the information that follows: .

* a very recent posting mentioned eschatologists of the 19th century (1800s) who provided ctr with his ideas on the interpretation of last-day prophecies.

acadian

Fifty victories in the US Supreme Court don't just happen. They are a result of successfully applying that injunction, etc.

That just shows the lack of faith in their God and his authority by asking man's government for permission to do God's work. When Jesus disciple were brought before man's court they didn't ask permission to preach the Gosple, no they put their faith in God and preached any way. If they are God's channel here on earth, why do they need Man's permission to preach the Good News? Because they are a man made corporation, under authority of the government that created it. Acadian

64

Watchtower--NGO With WANGO!

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

watchtower--ngo with wango!

if the watchtower society truly believes in a "new world" then why are they joining organizations that are attempting to make this old one better?

activitieswango is unique in regularly bringing together a prestigious, international leadership of non-governmental organizations, as well as other prominent leaders, representing diverse nations, perspectives, and realms of activity, and who are integrally involved in advancing world peace and creating a better society and world.

acadian

Good morning all, I personally think the real issue is being missed, they are a Corporation, incorpoated with the Government. (Man's not God's) What does it matter if they are associated with any other organization's? Their first offence was asking ceasar/government for priveleges rather than God. (exempt tax status and other benifits) They have been "in and of" the world from the git go. Think about it, they're incorporated status is with the State not Christ, they are the true Aposates/evil slave. Acadian

142

This board is not for me.

by Wafe in

jw
friends

when i came to this board, i thought that it was for encouragement amoung people who had been treated badly by the wtbts, i did not understand that people were going to come here and bash god, his son and the bible.

i could understand some embitterment over religion but some of you people are down right insulting.

not to mention the fact that i have tried to contact others on the board and have had my messages ignored.. .

acadian

My belief in the Bible is very deep and I need to be with people who share the same mind but are not intersted in money as was the WTBTS.
There are only a few like that here. But, they have a hard time, as you can imagine. Secondly, they sometimes start out like that, and then lose it. Maybe there is a discussion board somewhere on the net that is like that. But, it would need to be a closed board, so as to keep out the naysayers. No doubt some churches are like that.
S

I'm one, and I don't have a hard time (well not too hard, anyway who said life would be easy?). I'm not interested in money. other than to pay the bills. I live mostly by exchange and barter. I've almost cut all ties with all governments. (by not except their supposed benefits and privileges) I'm not a christian, ,I'm a follower of the way and Jesus the Christ. I feel the way you do sometimes about this board, many times you feel you have something important or interesting to share and you present it and it seems all some want do (except the two you mentioned...lol) is critisize everything you say. And as has already been said, it's no differant in the real world. There are quite a few here that beleive simular to you, not exactly like you but simular. I'm one. Stick around, don't worry about those who don't believe in God, always be respectful to other's even if their not too you. And make some real friend's. And if you pm me I will answer it... I have some sites you might be interested in. Kind Regards
Acadian .

53

If most here R anti jw why bother writing mean hurtful and prejudges posts?

by ayhra in

if most people are anti or ex jw why bother if you dont believe in it why waste your time writing mean hurtful and prejudges posts and set up a entire web site and forum dedicated to them.

its a religion not a cult and people write about jw's as a whole everyone is an individual and just like the rest of the world there are nice caring people as well as bad awful people.

jehovah witnesses dont set up web sites saying and exploting awful things that non jw's do to them, such as teasing bashing raping even murder..

acadian

Greetings to all... For those who believe in Jesus' teaching's and the eamples he gave, shouldn't they also expose hypocracy as Jesus did? So, what do you call Jesus, considering he exposed the hypocracy of the religon he grew up in. Should Jesus have just kept his mouth shut? No, those who follow Jesus, walk the walk and talk the talk, maybe instead of calling his follower's Christians they should be called Apostate-ian's. And when it came to exposeing hypocracy, Jesus started with the religion he grew up in. Too bad the WTS can't do the same, but sadly they attack everyone else not even seeing the log in there own eye. Acadian

39

Terror Level - ORANGE!!

by badwillie in

homeland security advisory system.

current threat level march 12, 2007 the united states government national threat level elevated, or yellow.. the u.s. threat level is high, or orange, for all domestic and international flights.

only small amounts of liquids, aerosols and gels are allowed in carry-on baggage.. see the transportation security administration (tsa) website for up-to-date information on items permitted and prohibited on airlines.. recommended activities all americans should continue to be vigilant, take notice of their surroundings, and report suspicious items or activities to local authorities immediately.everybody should establish an emergency preparedness kit as well as a communications plan for themselves and their family, and stay informed about what to do during an emergency situation

acadian

Propaganda...Paranoia...and what you sow, is what you reap...and the U.S. is... You can't keep exploiting other people and not expect it to come back at ya... Maybe the U.S. should keep it's nose out of other people's affaire's. Nooo... the U.S. has to bring Democracy (social communism) to the rest of the world, whether anyone wants it or not... I'm suprised the terror level isn't RED! with all the crap the U.S. does. America, land of the Fee home of the Slave. (it ain't the freedoms the immigrants are comming here for, it's the benifits dummy) None are more in-slaved, than those who believe their Free... I think many here have given up one lie for another.... The end does not justitfy the means, if you want Peace then become what you want to see... Peace cannot be brought about by Force... Acadian