Posts by cheeseman

31

Xtra-terrestrials...what are your thoughts?

by Bas in

jw
friends

.

well i don't believe in ufo's and abductions and that sort of thing but i do believe more that there must be extraterrestrial intelligence than i believe in the existance of a god.. i used to visit this site to read about the thoughts of serious scientists on the subject, it's the us-government sponsored project of seti:.

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cheeseman

Cave art has pictures of what looks like airplanes, helicopters, space ships, and alien looking people

Do you know of any websites on this subject?

31

Xtra-terrestrials...what are your thoughts?

by Bas in

jw
friends

.

well i don't believe in ufo's and abductions and that sort of thing but i do believe more that there must be extraterrestrial intelligence than i believe in the existance of a god.. i used to visit this site to read about the thoughts of serious scientists on the subject, it's the us-government sponsored project of seti:.

.

cheeseman

I think if they're (aliens) out there it would be difficult for us to even see them if they're that advanced to travel from universe to universe

I agree. They could be invisible to our eyes. Could be all around us, studying us.

31

Xtra-terrestrials...what are your thoughts?

by Bas in

jw
friends

.

well i don't believe in ufo's and abductions and that sort of thing but i do believe more that there must be extraterrestrial intelligence than i believe in the existance of a god.. i used to visit this site to read about the thoughts of serious scientists on the subject, it's the us-government sponsored project of seti:.

.

cheeseman

a race of highly intelligent beings who maybe created our universe as an experiment or for their amusement (Like the Greek gods in a lot of respects)

I certainly feel like a bug here for the amusement of the "gods", whatever they are. This explanation of things is no more wacky than anything else i've heard. One thing though...where did these highly intelligent beings come from? Are they themselves the objects of amusement for an even higher life form?

31

Xtra-terrestrials...what are your thoughts?

by Bas in

jw
friends

.

well i don't believe in ufo's and abductions and that sort of thing but i do believe more that there must be extraterrestrial intelligence than i believe in the existance of a god.. i used to visit this site to read about the thoughts of serious scientists on the subject, it's the us-government sponsored project of seti:.

.

cheeseman

To think a rough estimate of 100 billion galaxies fills our "known" universe, most containing billions of stars each with respective planets, it's hard to come up with a reason why life couldn't have evolved elsewhere (assuming that we did evolve of course). I don't believe that if there is life elsewhere we ought to have come across it by now. Maybe they are searching in the darkness like we are, billions of light years away. Maybe they are not as intelligent, like the animals of our planet.

What I'd like to get my head around is what was there before the big bang? If we did evolve, we can always hold on to the hope that there are other life forms out there. Without that...and without our Gods...the universe would be a lonely place indeed.

Could it be that the thing we fear most is true? That we are alone in all respects? Enjoy it while you can folks!

5

Adam named millions of species

by cheeseman in

i am intrigued by this:gen 2:19 and out of the ground the lord god formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

a quick search at the national geographic showed:to date, taxonomists have identified less than two million distinct species, mostly mammals and birds.

but it's estimated that the number of undiscovered speciesprimarily fish, fungi, insects, and microbesranges from ten million to more than one hundred million.

cheeseman

I am intrigued by this:

GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

A quick search at the national geographic showed:

To date, taxonomists have identified less than two million distinct species, mostly mammals and birds. But it's estimated that the number of undiscovered species—primarily fish, fungi, insects, and microbes—ranges from ten million to more than one hundred million. Even at the low estimate, it's an enormous number.

I'm wondering how long was it before Adam was done?

Assuming there are just 2 million species and that Adam took just one second to name each one it would take...

2,000,000 seconds / 60 = 33333 minutes / 60 = 555 hours / 24 = 23 days. Not bad going. However, if the 100 million estimate is more accurate it would take 1150 days or 3 years and a month or two. Quite a feat of endurance!

22

I have decided to sit down and talk with a JW any advice?

by MM090503 in

i know i just made one post, but i have another.. after the conversation with my bf tonight, i finally gave in and said i would sit down with a jw.

i don't beleive the bs for one moment.

i don't see the point in doing this, but if it will make my bf happy i'm willing to do it.

cheeseman

Ask why the dinosaurs were created. Point out that a tyrannosaurus rex was made for one thing...killing. Carnivores, ripping each others heads off with gigantic pointy teeth and claws. Product of a loving creator?

300

A comment I heard tonight

by Generic Man in

tonight i heard one of the most cruel and twisted comments i've ever heard at the platform.

the topic was the apocalypse and whether or not children will be slaughtered.

through one side of his mouth, the po stated that the bible is not clear on the matter, while out the other side he pointed to all those old testament accounts where children were killed.

cheeseman

Hi Generic Man. That's some pretty sick stuff right enough. It's funny how JW's can accept this sort of thing whilst still believing their God is loving. I can't make any sense out of it. It just doesn't seem right. Either God really is twisted, or JW's have it wrong about Him.

if someone was rude on service they come back to the group and laugh about they will get theirs when god destroys them, pretty sadisitic

Yup, familar with that one. At the risk of sounding immature I'll explain my thoughts.

This type of comment I imagine is prevalent in Kingdom Halls all over the world. Do JW's condone it? Officially speaking...no, of course not, but let's face it, there are more than one or two who harbour such thoughts. Will we measure JWs' integrity on what they SAY they should and shouldn't do...or by their actions. OK, these sickos are in a minority. However, it represents a wider problem when you consider it exists in KH's from here to Timbuctu. It's too easy to say "that's not the way they are supposed to think according to the rules of their religion". Fact is many just DO think that way...and they are representing their religion. Child abuse in the Catholic church is not being true to the values of that religion. Do we say..."Oh, but the Catholic church doesn't believe in child abuse" or do we say "those sick MFs". If you walked into a store and the assistant was rude to you for no reason, do you say "Oh well, he's only one individual who's in the wrong" or do you say "How dare you, you are the face of this company and have made a bad impression, for this I won't shop at this store again!"

They are representing their religion so the credibility of the religion is besmirched by such comments. Just my 2 cents.

21

A personal account

by cheeseman in

i'm new to the forum.

glad i found this place, it seems i've finally found somewhere i feel comfortable.

i'm writing this to get some stuff out of my system.

cheeseman

nothing more then a bunch of old men running peoples lives for power and greed.

Is this what it's all about? Is there more to the story than they do it 'cause they really believe it?

21

A personal account

by cheeseman in

i'm new to the forum.

glad i found this place, it seems i've finally found somewhere i feel comfortable.

i'm writing this to get some stuff out of my system.

cheeseman

welcome, cheeseman
That`s an interesting handle. Is there a story behind it?

No story talesin. I simply love cheese. Maybe when I'm reincarnated I'll come back as a good stanky dollop of blue stilton. Well, one can only hope.

Thanks for everybodys' kind responses and support. It helps to know other people have faced similar circumstances and come through the other side. I'm off to do a little research, ciao for now.

21

A personal account

by cheeseman in

i'm new to the forum.

glad i found this place, it seems i've finally found somewhere i feel comfortable.

i'm writing this to get some stuff out of my system.

cheeseman

Hello to all. I'm new to the forum. Glad I found this place, it seems I've finally found somewhere I feel comfortable. I'm writing this to get some stuff out of my system. If you have the time to read it, great. If not, don't worry, it's just good for me to get it off my chest. This is my story, here goes.

I had my first "witness" when I was 17 years old. It was a curious affair. At that time I was searching for some meaning to life. School was hell, home life no better and I was very depressed and thought about taking my own life. Somehow, I had convinced myself that aliens was the thing. I used to stay awake all night just staring at the stars hoping that they'd find me...make contact...give meaning to the universe. It didn't happen, but I was still convinced they were real.

I spoke to my sister about it. We debated. I put forward my alien theories. She was quite mad about what I'd said and swore vehemntly there were no aliens and that God was the real deal. I didn't know it at the time but, she had been studying the Society's literature. She pulled out the "Live Forever" book and said I had to read it or there could be no more serious debate.

I took it home and read it. I was blown away. The rug had been pulled from under my feet and I could no longer believe in aliens. I was so moved about the book I wept for days at this discovery. Soon after, I had JW's at the door. I was very receptive...wanting to believe this was the "truth". I accepted a bible study and so began to change my life. At first everything was great. I had finally found what I'd been looking for, I felt ecstatic. I was going to meetings regularly and getting great praise from everyone in the congregation, egging me on to bigger and brighter things...but the downward spiral had begun. I hadn't noticed at first but I would do so soon enough.

The first thing was my family. I began to view them with suspicion. They didn't share my enthusiasm for the "truth". My sister wasn't going to meetings, my dad and brother were opposed, my mum was passive but was full of awkward "stumbling" questions. It was here that my mum showed me her considerable stash of Watchtower and Awake mags she had collected throughout the years. She had read them but never acted on them. This was all news to me. I saw their efforts to question my faith as a test from Satan. Naturally. It never entered my head that some doubting points my family raised about my new religion were valid. It was simply Satan at work.

Then I lost my girlfriend. We hadn't been together long, maybe a year and a half, but I did love her even at that young age. It hurt badly, but I was determined...this was another test. When I told the JW's about my plight, they quoted some scripture about families being divided as part of learning the "truth". I can't remember the exact verse. I was also losing friends rapidly and having work pals mock me constantly. This was of course Satan. So, it meant I was doing everything right.

Things started really going wrong when I hit 19. Suffering from the loss of my friends, girlfriend and family opposition, I became very depressed. That joy of discovering the "truth" had been replaced by fear. Fear for my life at Armageddon. Fear of Jehovah. Fear I lived but then had to see my loved ones annihilated. My whole life was being driven by pure dread instead of joy. This was okay the JW's assured me as fear of Jehovah is a good thing. I suffered a breakdown and lost my job through it all.

Not wanting to leave the organisation (fear) I struggled on. At this point I met a really cool brother. We got on great. We played guitar together, drank beer, joked. He was different from most witnesses. More happy. However, I was recommended not to associate with him because he was materialistic, unspritual and worldly. I ignored the elders and had a great time. I went to live with his family for a break to get over my depression. My family were part of the "world" and I still wanted to be part of the "truth".

Things got worse. My new friend's family were nasty, nasty people. They tried to control my every move and thought. They even starved me. They knew I didn't have much money, I was unable to work but I gave all I could to them, they denied me basic food. I must have weighed about 8 or 9 stone. I could see my ribs. Ironically, it was another "worldly" brother I met who saved me and offered me accomodation away from these monsters. I was in tears about my treatment. I confided in two or three brothers but nobody suggested we do anything, best not to rock the boat.

Disillusioned but not broken, I moved from Scotland to England to try a new congregation. It was more of the same. People in the congregations didn't seem any different from people in the outside world. In fact I was beginning to suspect people on the outside had a more humane view of life. One guy in the congregation raped his wife and daughter. Their son was also a pervert, stealing underwear from washing lines. I reminded myself that this family had problems but were still Jehovah's people and it was none of my business.

I moved back home and started to miss meetings. One brother kept visiting me all the time to get me to go back. Then I had a visit from the elders. At this point I was becoming extremely distressed about the whole ordeal. I felt at that time I needed professional help and considered seeing a psychiatrist. But my mind blanked out the idea. This was Satan. A psychiatrist would be from Satan to get me to leave the "truth".

Anyway, I decided for the good of my mental health I would cease all activity with the JW's although deep down I still felt they were the chosen ones and still had that fear inside me. Recently, 10 years after all of this, I had another nervous breakdown. The last 10 years have been a constant worry for me. What will happen on judgement day? Will I be "torn" from the earth? Will my family be brutally executed? How will ever be sane even if I live? Will I be paralysed by fear when that day comes? Is Satan at my back door as I write?

A few months ago, I started beleiving Satan was making contact with me through TV. I was hopitalised, put on anti-depressants and anti-psychotics. Thankfully I've been released. Here I am now. 10 years later and living a life of fear. I have missed the best portion of my life. Those years are gone, I can't get them back. I'm glad I found this forum and glad for http://members.aol.com/beyondjw/ These sites have helped to see I was being controlled by JW's. Even if they didn't realise themselves that they were controlling me.

I'm still afraid. I'm slowly beginning to digest the possibility JW's have got it wrong. I'm sure they mean well, but in my experience they are no better as people than anyone else...quite often worse. I'm hoping to learn more. I want to become an effective debater against JW's. I have two at my door again. They have been visiting for months. They nearly got me to take interest once more...but I found this site first. Now I just have to get rid of them. As I write, I'm aware of the possibilty that my actions are being controlled by Satan. Am I an apostate? I was never baptised. I have that fear, but I'm still hoping to get my life together. Thanks for reading, your comments are greatly welcome.