To the traditionalist, the issue can be seen as nothing more than: "Modern science is taking away my god and (often) my immortality, and I cannot and will not accept this". Therefore, they say, "I must find evidence to show that science is wrong in those areas bearing on my religion. To the extent that I fail to do that, I must suppress science. Finally, if I cannot do either of these things, I may need to become militant to preserve what I believe I need in order to carry on with my life." We find evidence for this reaction here, in the forum as well as across the entire world. Only recently have the philosophical implications of science become well known to enough people in all major cultures for the leaders of these cultures to realize what is at stake. (excerpted from Free Inquiry feb/march, 2006)
SeymourButts
JoinedPosts by SeymourButts
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Flood/Bristlecone Pine: For bible believers: please answer
by skyman in.
using overlapping tree ring patterns from dead and still living bristlecone pines shows a 100% provable climate for california for over 10,000 years thus proving the the great flood did not happen as far back as 10,000 years ago.. www.americanforests.org/productsandpubs/ magazine/archives/2004winter/feature1_1.php - 19k.
www.unmuseum.org/radiocar.htm - 8k
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Is the Watchtower behind this "unbiased" website?
by SeymourButts ini just happened to stumble across this website while doing some research.
although it claims to not be biased toward any religous denomination, it has a decidedly watchtower slant to all of its bible translations and subject commentaries.
it completely supports 607bc and even claims that only 144,000 will be going to heaven.
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SeymourButts
I just happened to stumble across this website while doing some research. Although it claims to not be biased toward any religous denomination, it has a decidedly Watchtower slant to all of its Bible translations and subject commentaries. It completely supports 607bc and even claims that only 144,000 will be going to heaven. Although I have not had time to referance any of it yet, it appears that much is virtually straight from the pages of the Watchtower and its publications. The arguments are identical.
Also, make sure you look at their translation of John 1:1
http://www.2001translation.com/index.html
This one is their refutation of 587/6 and support for 607
http://www.2001translation.com/587_or_607.htmThey in virtually every way show support for Watchtower doctrine....only leaving the Watchtower name out. Even their discussion of the "faithful slave" demonstrates it to be a "class" of annointed not not applicable to all.
The more I read the more apparant it becomes that the Watchtower has their hand in this. It looks like an attempt to show that an "un-biased" party agrees with their doctrine.
What do you all think? Have any of you seen this before?
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What's so bad about Satan?
by robhic inwhy is satan supposed to be so bad?
he gets the blame, sure, but what does he explicitly do?
that god had?
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SeymourButts
God created evil "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things" (Isa. 45:7). "Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that good and evil come?" (Lam. 3:38). "...that I may repent of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings" (Jer. 26:3). "...all the evil which I purpose to do unto them; that they may return every man from his evil way; that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin" (Jer. 36:3). "I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live. And I polluted them in their own gifts...." (Ezek. 20:25-26). "For thus saith the Lord; as I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them" (Jer. 32:42). "...shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?" (Amos 3:6). Evil comes from God "it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him" (1 Sam. 16:23). "it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul...." (1 Sam. 18:10). "the evil spirit from the Lord was upon Saul...." (1 Sam. 19:9). "Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubles thee" (1 Sam. 16:15). "the spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubles him" (1 Sam. 16:14). "...evil came down from the Lord unto the gate of Jerusalem" (Micah 1:12). "Thus saith the Lord, Behold I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbor, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun. For thou did it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun" (2 Sam. 12:11-12). "God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem...." (Judges 9:23). See also: 1 Kings 14:10, 2 Kings 21:12, and Isa. 31:2. God tells people to lie "...and thou (Moses) shalt come, thou and the elders of Israel, unto the king of Egypt, and you shall say unto him, The Lord God of the Hebrews hath met with us: and now let us go, we beseech thee, three days journey into the wilderness, that we may sacrifice to the Lord our God" (Ex. 3:18) and "afterward Moses and Aaron went in, and told Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Let my people go, that they may hold a feast unto me in the wilderness." God is telling Moses to lie because the real reason is to escape.
"Samuel said, How can I go? if Saul hear it, he will kill me. And the Lord said, Take a heifer with thee, and say, I am come to sacrifice to the Lord" (1 Sam. 16:2). The Lord told Samuel to lie also, since he is actually going out to meet a son of Jesse to anoint him king. Yet, we are told in Prov. 12:22 that, "Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord."
God Lies Joshua 7:1 says, "The people of Israel broke faith in regard to the devoted things; for Achan...took some of the devoted things; and the anger of the Lord burned against the people of Israel" and God responds by saying in the 11th verse, "Israel has sinned, and they have also transgressed my covenant...." Yet, God did not tell the truth. Only Achan sinned, not all Israel, and Achan admits as much in the 20th verse by saying, "Indeed I have sinned against the Lord God of Israel...."
God Deceives"O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived...." (Jer. 20:7).
"if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel" (Ezek. 14:9).
"Ah, Lord God! Surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; whereas the sword reaches unto the soul" (Jer. 4:10).
"...God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false, so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness" (2 Thess. 2:9-12). -
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Church members come from far and wide to repair hundreds of houses
by Country Girl inchurch members come from far and .
wide to repair hundreds of houses .
by: jamie reid, the enterprise 01/13/2006 .
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SeymourButts
To be honest, I assumed that this was common knowledge. This person sustained damage during Katrina....roof, interior water damage, etc... They were confined to living in one room due to the roof and subsequent water damage. A little background on this person...XXX was DFd for a divorce, but has since been reinstated. In the past 8 months the eyes of XXX have been opened and they only occasionally attend meetings. The sporadic attendance is due to the fact that XXX father is an elder. XXXs mother knows that XXX is doubting and told them that if they get DFd again, XXX would be shunned. So anyway, it was no big deal to hear that the "Brothers" would be doing the repairs on the house. A couple months ago XXX called....we were shooting the breeze about nothing in particular when I just happened to ask if the house had been fixed yet. XXX told me that the "brothers" had done the repairs and had only a few small things to finish. My reply was "Well, at least you saved some money and only had to pay for materials". This was when they told me that they didn't save any money because they had to give it all to the society. I was a little shocked when they told me this, but then asked why they had to give it all, why not just some of it. That was when I was told about the form they had to fill out. I quickly asked if XXX would send me a copy of it. I was told that there were no copies, just the original which was kept by the elders that witnessed the signing. But,.....XXX told me that their dad was one of the elders involved and he had more of the forms.....they would get me one if I wanted it. XXX called back a half an hour later and told me that they couldn't find them. Bummer! Oh well, I didn't think it was a big deal and told them to forget about it. I really thought that this was common knowledge and someone had one posted online somewhere. I was just wanting an original, not a copy. So,....do I have evidence...no, sorry I don't. Like I said, I didn't think it was that big of an issue at the time....I had heard that this happened in Florida as well from an earlier hurricane. Surely, there has to be someone else out there with knowledge of this.
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Church members come from far and wide to repair hundreds of houses
by Country Girl inchurch members come from far and .
wide to repair hundreds of houses .
by: jamie reid, the enterprise 01/13/2006 .
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SeymourButts
I think you guys are missing the whole story. I personally know someone that has had their hurricane damaged house repaired recently by the "Brothers". They fix the house alright, but you also have to sign a form disclosing ALL that you have recieved in insurance and other aide for repairs. This money/check, HAS to be signed over to the Society.
It is nothing more than another money making scam for the Society. They send out the free labor force to repair the homes for nothing more than the cost of materials. The Society then gets to pocket the remainder.
The society doesn't invest a dime and makes tons of money from their free labor.
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THE NEWS IS BIGGER THAN DATELINE, BBC, CBC, ETC.
by AndersonsInfo inif i told you that something bigger is on the horizon than dateline, bbc, cbc, sunday (australia), and all other tv programs which exposed the sexual child abuse cover-up by watchtower in 2002-2003, would you believe me?
have i ever misled you?
i'll answer that--no!
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SeymourButts
Hmmmmm, It won't be about money...at least not directly. An embezzlement wouldn't mean anything to the r&f. It won't be about blood. It won't be a doctrinal change...new light. It is not necessarily illegal...it is a cover-up, a scandal. key words, "bamboozled, lied, hoodwinked..." We have "hordes of experts".... A woman "ferreted" it out. What types of "hordes" of experts could it be....money, naa....irs or embezzlement, naa.... But....abuse experts, psychology experts, cult experts,..."Woman" was emphasized. What if......the society paid hush money to some accusers of...Michael Jackson maybe.
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Looking for secular proof for 609 BC...
by AuldSoul inviewing jeremiah from the standpoint of the world powers, it makes perfect sense that the 70 years would apply to babylon's ascendancy as the isaiah's prochecy book stated, instead of applying to jerusalem.
*** ip-1 chap.
19 pp.
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SeymourButts
The Babylonian chronicle for the years 615-609bc tells of the fall of Nineveh. BM21901. See the book of Nahum. This chronicle records that the army of Egypt had come to help Assyria (at the battle of Carchemish). The bible tells us that Pharaoh Neco was going to fight along side Assyria when Josiah went to Megiddo to cut him off. This proved to be a fatal mistake for Josiah (2 Kings 23:29) BM 21901
The chronicle for the events between 622 to 617 is missing. This tablet covers the period from 616 to 608 and opens with the Medes having made their appearance as the leaders of the anti-Assyrian coalition. The Egyptians, on the other hand, have now joined forces with the weakened Assyrians to thwart the threat of the Medo-Bababylonian alliance. In 614, the Medes capture the Assyrian city Assur. Nabopolassar arrives to offer his assistance, but arrives after the city is fallen. The two kings, Kyaxares of the Medes and Nabopolassar form an alliance and set out in conquest. In 612, after three months of siege, the two kings sack Nineveh. The Assyrians make a last ditch effort in Harran to maintain their civilization. Yet despite tremendous Egyptian assistance, the attempt was a failure and the Assyrians are lost forever. -
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Abortion
by Ellie in.
i don't know if any of you brits saw the 'this morning' show today but they had a woman on it whos mother had tried to abort her at 7 and a half months pregnant, apparentely they gave her mum some stuff to drink which burns the baby inside and out, but fortunately this baby survived and now as a woman she is campaigning for anti abortion laws to be brought in.. so, what are your views on abortion?
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SeymourButts
I'll tell you what. I will not oppose making abortion illegal when the moralists in this country can guarantee me that every child born will receive adequate health care, education, clothing, and nourishment. Until that day, which will never arrive because it actually costs money and means we have to actually act---without judgement--in helping others less fortunate than a lot of us, I fail to see how forcing a woman to give birth translates to "right to life."
Right to what kind of life?
Does this include the childs right to be ignored or condemned by the rest of us if it happens to be born into poverty, or born to an addict, or born to an illegal immigrant? Does the child have the right to be considered inferior because of its station in life or its educational opportunities that do not compare to schools in, say, Malibu?
Right to life? Baloney! Right to birth is more the reality. Until they are ready to put their money and priorities where their mouths are, there is no real debate to be had.-- only oversimplistic moral platitudes that really do not address the scope and breadth of the issue.
It's like looking at the iceberg and seeing only that which appears above the water. It was the stuff under the surface that sank the ship.
Have we not seen enough of that?
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Abortion
by Ellie in.
i don't know if any of you brits saw the 'this morning' show today but they had a woman on it whos mother had tried to abort her at 7 and a half months pregnant, apparentely they gave her mum some stuff to drink which burns the baby inside and out, but fortunately this baby survived and now as a woman she is campaigning for anti abortion laws to be brought in.. so, what are your views on abortion?
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SeymourButts
In my opinion, there are no absolutes in the abortion issue. I used to be anti-abortion...totally against it for any reason. But now, my view has changed. If we ban abortion completely....would you be willing to let your 10 yr old daughter die, if she had been raped and carrying the baby to full term would kill her? If abortion is legalized...completely......do we allow a woman to have an abortion on the day before it is due to be born? Don't tell me these scenarios will not happen....they will. There will always be someone that will push a situation to the extreme and test the limits of the law, or lack thereof. To the ladies that feel you are the only one that is able to make the decision whether to have the child or not...I disagree. It takes two to tango. Don't tell me that I have absolutely no say in the matter unless you are willing to accept full responsibility. Do not come to me for child support if you are unwilling to involve me in the decision of whether or not you have an abortion. If you want to say it is your decision alone and the man has no say at all....fine....don't come to me for child support. It goes both ways. If one wants to say that all abortion is murder...fine....but...if a woman has a miscarriage because she tripped and fell over something on the floor causing injury to the fetus....do we charge her with involuntary homicide? Yes, it was an accident, but does someone get off with no consequence if they "accidentally" run over someone with their car and kill them? You can't have it both ways. Maybe we should ban all forms of sex unless a couple is trying to have a child. A couple of cells do not a human make. Those cells only have the potential to become a human. So does a mans sperm and a womans egg each have the potential to become a human? Do we ban sex for anything other than procreation because each little sperm has the potential to become a human? Where does it stop? All I am saying is that there are no absolutes in the abortion debate.
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Execution in United States Are You For It?
by jayhawk1 infrom the ap.... raleigh, n.c. - a man who killed his wife and father-in-law pinned his hopes on last-minute intervention from the governor or the courts as he awaited lethal injection early friday in the nation's 1,000th execution since capital punishment resumed in 1977. kenneth lee boyd, set to die at 2 a.m., spent the day receiving visitors, including two sons who watched him gun down their mother and grandfather in 1988. .
my questions are; are you for or against the death penalty?
what was your opinion of the death penalty as a jehovah's witness?.
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SeymourButts
Nope...Against it
BUT....not for the reason that you might think. The only puishment that one would recieve if executed, would be the thought of knowing you were going to be put to death and were about to die. That is not punishment.....once that person is dead, that's it....they're dead. They are not laying in some coffin somewhere saying, "Oh gee, I'm dead...I guess I shouldn't have done that". They are just dead...no consciousness, no mythical hell to suffer in, just dead. They don't know that they are dead....they are dead.
I want torture....pain and suffering......solitary confinement....bread and water....won't see daylight until the day they die. And if possible....keep them alive as long as I can....to prolong the suffering. If you think this is inhumane....give them a gun with one bullet.....their choice. THAT would be punishment....execution isn't.
And, I pity the sob that would break into my home when I am there. I'm not shooting to kill, I am shooting to maim, to injure, to cause much pain and suffering. Maybe when he wakes up every morning and has to strap on his wooden leg, he will think twice about ever robbing someone again.