Posts by Nellie

46

Mind Numbing stupidity are some current JW's that are on this board.

by skyman in

jw
friends

i have had a rash of jws on this board leaving comments in my inbox telling me how mislead i am.

but what amazes me not one of them yet will analyze the facts with me.

a real discussion means nothing to them.

Nellie

When I happened upon this site, the words "everyone welcome" in the logo gave me the courage to enter. I knew that what I was doing (surfing the web about JWs) was not "good" according to society standards, but I knew I hadn't been living up to those standards for quite a while anyway.

What I appreciated about the site, once I read a little, was that there truly was a range of opinions and a range of acceptability. It's funny, while the posters generally make fun of the society and the language they use - you even have a language here that from the outside is strange, ie. apologist, dubs, nbsp(?). I've been able to use "context clues" to figure most of it out - but I think someone should put together a key guide for us newbies.

When I got here, I knew that I was having issues with the truth - that is with the organizational requirements. Since I've been around, I've concluded that instead of just being mistaken about some things, perhaps the society has actually been misleading the flock (with intent). That leap doesn't come easily - or quickly!

Being thought of as an apostate is the worst accusation that can be alleged against a witness. I just read someone's post where they stated that an apostate is someone who sins against God - not the society. That's powerful - and I appreciate the insight. While I don't have a desire to picket a kingdom hall or assembly, I also no longer want to be thought of as a JW, and I don't want anyone to think that my actions reflect those of one. While I no longer respect the organizations regulations, I do respect the principles of good and bad that they promote and I am grateful for those guidelines with helping to create the woman I am.

IMHO, there is not much difference in the supertheocratic overzealous witness and the "whatever the appropriate venacular to describe overzealous exwitness is" when they start yelling. Both are equally disturbing.

7

JW peer pressure

by ljwtiamb in

there seems to be a common theme going on in the jw community.

at the first sign of a possible committment, every jw rushes you (with guilt) to show that you are serious.then, at the first sign of trouble everyone wants you to shoulder your responsibilities.finally, they damn/shun you if you can't handle things or choose/decide to quit.. i've seen this scenario played out with: interested couples rushed to engagement.dating couple rushed into marriage.bible studies & young persons rushed into baptism.any jw with 'free' time (meaning non-wt activities) rushed into pioneer service.young pioneer brothers rushed into bethel.. have you seen the same in your areas?

can you think of other scenarios?

Nellie

Let's not forget the pressure to NOT go to college, but vocational school which will allow you to pioneer is okay.

The pressure NOT to take certain types of jobs; especially one that might require overtime or travel (or a job transfer to another state).

The pressure NOT to associate with co-workers or schoolmates.

The pressure to join the Ministry School (new ones or young ones).

The pressure NOT to want to follow certain careers, esp. sports, music, modeling or the arts.

92

Compiling List-Trivial Items People Are Counseled Against

by love2Bworldly in

jw
friends

i hope this is not a repeat of past threads and i hope to get a lot of response.

i am compiling info of how people are treated within the wts.

i just read the post about a person being counseled for having baby shower games.

Nellie

I was 13 years old, sitting in the front row at the meeting with my ankles crossed. After the meeting, the elder who conducted the meeting came over to me and counseled me against wearing fishnet stockings and crossing my ankles. Apparently, he was having a difficult time "concentrating" when he was on the platform. I didn't understand until years later what the problem was -- yes, I was THAT naive.

Poor Baby, I wonder if his wife put him up to it.

23

My JW neighbor's birthday

by bebu in

jw
friends

as i was headed home the other day, it occurred to me that it was my jw neighbor's birthday.

i remembered this as i realized that she would be at my home in about 20 minutes so that i could help her with something.

so, i quickly stopped at a store and got her a gift, and had it gift-wrapped.

Nellie

This does not surprise me one bit - there is sooo much apathy within the congregation among the friends that they are all starving for attention! My sister has been complaining for years about the fact that she doesn't feel included by the congregation. And since I didn't want to discourage her, I mostly kept my comments to myself. No one from there has really "befriended" her and her only girlfriends come from work. Last week she missed the Service Meeting (Friday) and they announced that there was going to be a cong picnic the next day. Suffice to say, no one called to tell her and she is really upset. So much so that she didn't go to the meeting last night and it's the CO's visit.

Just goes to show how much a little personal attention means to us all. Nothing like the Brotherhood at work!

90

How many of you are still in?

by IP_SEC in

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i just thought i'td be neet to get a poll of how many people on this board are still meeting attending, time reporting publishers, who believe the wts is all crap?.

Nellie

And lets not discount the ones like my friend -

Elder, not elder, adulterer, repentent and adulterer again - just today he told me that he was watching lesbian porn on the web! Mind you, he was afraid that I WAS BECOMING APOSTATE.

Today, I told him it was about time he conceeded to the fact that he was never going to be able to do the things he thought he should do - or be the person he thought he had to be - and just be the person he really was.

He probably won't talk to me again for a few weeks - his conscience will bother him - and then he'll be right back to doing what he always does.

I have a hard time counting him in as faithful and true!

121

Who Was Shocked By the Watchtower UN NGO Scandal?

by AlanF in

.

i'd like to get comments from people about whether and how much they were shocked, surprised, or otherwise bothered by the watchtower society's becoming an associated non-governmental organization (ngo).. note that i'd like to see these comments because they might lead to some interesting publicity, so please comment accordingly.. alanf

Nellie

All Good -

I couldn't agree more. Even if I did hear something about this, the comment was so inoccuous that it went right over my head. Just like the talk at the District about voting - I remember coming home with my husband saying, "Did he just say that we could vote or not?" The talk was so totally out of both sides of the face that it couldn't have made any sense to anyone. But like always, most just went with the flow.

They will hear what they think they were supposed to hear - always. That's why it's so hard for a secure witness to accept anything contrary to what they think (even when it comes from the Society) - they already know what it all. I guess that's what you call mind control at it's best.

121

Who Was Shocked By the Watchtower UN NGO Scandal?

by AlanF in

.

i'd like to get comments from people about whether and how much they were shocked, surprised, or otherwise bothered by the watchtower society's becoming an associated non-governmental organization (ngo).. note that i'd like to see these comments because they might lead to some interesting publicity, so please comment accordingly.. alanf

Nellie

I'm still shocked!

There is no acceptable justification for the WTS to join the UN. I couldn't agree more with the previous posters! Jehovah's Earthly Organization and the Wild Beast! Huh??? I'm flabbergasted! What could possibly be said in their defense?

I know witnesses who could not afford to feed their families, who refused to accept governmental food-aid programs because the food distribution site was in a church. They would not be caught going into or out of a church for any reason whatsoever - no physical food was important enough to "appear" disloyal to God's org. And then the WTS uses UN planes to take food and supplies to people in France? And they join the UN for LIBRARY PRIVILEGES!

The sad truth about this is that the average zealous witness will NOT hear about this. They will not read about this and they won't accept it even if it's put in their faces.

I chose to stop attending meetings @ 2 years ago, and although it rings pretty hollow, I would probably still identify myself as a witness today. I've spent the last few weeks reading at this site, and really appreciate the facts that I've learned that support the unease I've felt all these years. This, undoubtedly, will make my indecisions clearer.

31

What do I tell my children?

by Nellie in

i have four kids - ages 18, 13, 10 and 6. .

first some clarification: i have been in the "truth" for 35 years, and although i have never been particularly active in the ministry .

for example: my 18 year old son really wants his ear pierced.

Nellie

Gary -

That's a scary thought. My heart goes out to you and your wife. May I ask how old were your children when your wife became inactive? I have always spoken to my 18 year old (he's been raised in the truth since birth) honestly about life and when I realized almost 2 years ago that my heart wasn't in meeting attendance, I told him that if he was "making the truth his own" and wanted to get to the meetings that we could arrange something for him - he never took me up on the offer and I never pushed it. After all, how could I encourage him to go when I didn't feel it myself. Anyway we continued to talk and even spoke about why his dad and I had slowed down from our service. He said he understood and had always found a lot of hypocracy in the cong (esp with the young people). He's a good kid who stays out of trouble and who follows the rules. You know, no drinking, no drugs, no sex, doesn't make a practice of cursing, etc. He was always amazed at the conduct of the young witnesses away from the cong. as he saw them at the mall, skating, at school, etc. I think that, more than anything else, discouraged him from getting baptized. He didn't want to be LIKE THEM.

He's not the one I have to tread carefully with. Actually, it's more my 13, 10 and 6 year olds that I'm worried about. I think it would almost be easier if we had been depriving them of "life" for the "truth" - but we've been blowing off so many of their "don't do" activities for so long, that I don't think they realize they shouldn't have been doing them. The don't do activites: playing w/worldly kids, afterschool sports, community activitism (I'm on the Board of Directors in my community and the PTSA), and we even went to a New Years Eve party for 2003 (how I explained that I still don't know - but I felt so guilty we didn't go for 04 or 05).

I think I'm gonna go get COC this weekend - I'm sure once I read that, there will be no turning back! Yikes!

31

What do I tell my children?

by Nellie in

i have four kids - ages 18, 13, 10 and 6. .

first some clarification: i have been in the "truth" for 35 years, and although i have never been particularly active in the ministry .

for example: my 18 year old son really wants his ear pierced.

Nellie

Thanks, all of you for your responses.

It has been about 18 months since we stopped attending meetings. So, trust me, we shouild've been marked by now! Funny thing is, with all the splitting and shifting of the congregations, I stopped feeling "at home" in the congregation about 10 years ago. Since then, even when I was there, there was no "connection" in the congregation. As we started drifting away, no one seemed to notice or care. From time to time, when we went to a meeting, someone might ask "where have you been?" - but it wasn't a sincere question it was superficial. Just recently, at the "Special Talk" - everyone was extremely friendly, no one asked a thing and you would have thought they had just seen us at the Ministry School. (I really don't know what to make of that.) It didn't feel like we had been marked - I mean we weren't invited out to lunch with anyone, but we didn't feel left out of anything either. It's not about not being wanted there, it's about me not feeling "it" anymore.

But, back to the kids - they would love to go to birthday parties, have birthday parties, etc.

CJ - "My husband and I finally had to come to a decision, that how can we explain to our children that they couldn't participate in these activities because we use to belong to a religion that did not allow us to do it."

Excellent point. That's kind of where we're at about that birthday party.

B12 - "Will they be afraid that they are going to die at Armegeddon? This may be the most difficult part of all, if they have come to equate being a JW with paradise!"

I really don't think so. We were never big on "scare tactics" with the kids!

LHG - But with a family in the JWs you can't fake it. You have to come out and take a stand (with your family, at least).

I agree. If you read my orig post, you know I have one df'd sister (F) and one baptized one (D). I called my df'd sister Sat and unloaded. She understood all too well and agreed that I was going to have to come clean with (D). I did Sunday. After a few tears, she said she would always love me and that this would not change the way she felt about me. She would pray for me to find my way, whatever path it took. Personally, I think she only got baptized because after leading such a "worldly" life, she found the "truth" to be a safety net out of trouble. And she really has turned her life around - but like I always said: "You don't have to be a witness to be an upstanding member of Society with morals and character." All I kept thinking was, "If she tells an Elder about this conversation, I'm sure to be labeled an apostate." But like you said, I had to come out... We also have extended family in the truth - them I don't worry about. They've never been close.

To all of you who suggested a family meeting - I can't agree more and thanks for your words of support. Where I sit right now, I can't ever imagine wanting to go to another organization. I just don't know how that works after being a JW. My kids are active - my eldest is graduating and making plans to go away to college! (Guess how that would've gone over!) I think THAT had alot with me being where I am now - wanting to prepare him for life at college and the reality of being a MAN. (That's another thread altogether!)

I'll follow this up after our "talk." It'll probably be a few days before it happens. I'll ck back for more suggestions before I take this plunge. Thanks again!

Nellie

31

What do I tell my children?

by Nellie in

i have four kids - ages 18, 13, 10 and 6. .

first some clarification: i have been in the "truth" for 35 years, and although i have never been particularly active in the ministry .

for example: my 18 year old son really wants his ear pierced.

Nellie

I have four kids - ages 18, 13, 10 and 6.

First some clarification: I have been in the "truth" for 35 years, and although I have never been particularly active in the ministry I have followed the JW "lifestyle" whether we were attending meetings or not. Now it's gotten to this: I no longer believe that the org is God's representation on earth and no longer find it necessary to refrain from engaging in certain activities.

For example: My 18 year old son really wants his ear pierced. For that matter, so has my husband, and the only thing stopping us was the congregational attitude regarding it. Well, now I'd like to take them both to the mall and have it done - but I'm honestly scared! Of what, I can't say - but I am. It seems like such a line to cross.

All of my children have been heavily involved in afterschool activities (another no-no I know), but I never saw anything wrong with it. So they have more than the usual amount of worldly friends. In the past we would always turn down birthday invitations (naturally) - and I always regretted having to do it. Last week, my 10 year old was invited to a pretty cool birthday celebration - and i want to tell him yes he can go, but it's sticking in my throat. I know he'll be thrilled about going - but he's going to ask me why after all this time is it now okay to go to a birthday party.

I have never had a problem talking to my kids about anything. But for the last two years my answers have felt hollow even to me. I just want to handle this conversation right and would appreciate it if any of you have had to deal with these issues and shed some light on what might happen. Thanks.