Posts by Evanescence

113

if an atheist does something good...

by DannyBloem in

.

if an atheist leads good life with high moral standards, because he choice to do so and thinks for logic it is a good thing, does it not mean much more then when a theist does the same, because his gods tells him to do it?

what's your thoughs on this?

Evanescence

Religious morality allows people to justify some horrible, horrible things, such as:

Some "christians" may do bad things, but definately not in the name or Morality or in our Lord Jesus

God Hates Fags

I strongly recommend you stay away from Westboro Baptist!

and
Paul Hill murdering a doctor who legally performed abortions

I can't imagine how an atheist would ever come up with a code of morality that justified these kinds of acts, let alone actively encouraged and promoted them.

I wouldn't expect any atheist to do so! Or any true Christian. Evanescence

113

if an atheist does something good...

by DannyBloem in

.

if an atheist leads good life with high moral standards, because he choice to do so and thinks for logic it is a good thing, does it not mean much more then when a theist does the same, because his gods tells him to do it?

what's your thoughs on this?

Evanescence

Kikisdragon

I am an athiest, and I wholeheartedly disagree that an athiest only does 'good' out of survival.

Every athiest is not the same - everyone has their own motives. That is insulting to me that you would assume that about me!

I think that being a good person and helping others is a way to make the world a better place, and benefits everyone and is the natural thing for humans to do. And yes, depending on the circumstances, I would sacrifice my life for someone else. My son, specifically. In a heartbeat. For a friend or family member, if that was the right thing to do. You do not need to believe in god to love people, and to put other people's needs first.

I don't think anyone made the claim that atheist individuals themselves only do good out of survival only. However it is what the atheist worldview can very much promote!

And I think it does matter to some extent, the motive behind 'doing good'. If a person only does good because of their religious beliefs, they will only do it when people know about it or people are watching. But someone who wants to do something good, simply because they see the need, or sincerely want to help or care about someone, will do good regardless of who is watching, or who knows about it. If one of my friends helps me out, because they feel it is their 'christian duty', then I would rather they didnt bother, because it means they really don't care about me, they only want to look good in other people's eyes, or please their 'god' so they will be rewarded or try to get me to come to more meetings or something of that nature. But when a true friend does something out of the sincerity of their heart, expecting no reward, then it strengthens friendships, and I appreciate it all the more, and am more likely to pass on the good feeling to others.

I am sure you are familiar with the Christian teaching on this matter.

It is hypocritical to do good just for rewards and good reputation and always expecting something out of it. The bible itself said that you are better off doing good works in secret and NOT to stand on corner streets showing off with a self-righteous attitude.

Evanescence

113

if an atheist does something good...

by DannyBloem in

.

if an atheist leads good life with high moral standards, because he choice to do so and thinks for logic it is a good thing, does it not mean much more then when a theist does the same, because his gods tells him to do it?

what's your thoughs on this?

Evanescence

From Atheist vs. God

I'd start with the obvious here. The post on that page has many obvious problems, and I'd start with them:

1. About what "theist" is this person speaking. Monotheist? Polytheist? The author doesn't specify. By the statements that the author makes, it could be that they are addressing monotheists only, but then again, not all monotheists have the same concept of morality. Therefore, that topic can only continue if he addresses the individual morality of the many different "theists" that he is attempting to discredit all at once.

2. In the very first paragraph, the author claims, "Adultery, Theft, Murder etc are considered wrong because they harm the society in which these things take place and not simply because a superior authority has decreed they are wrong."

To that, I would ask WHO is considering these acts wrong? The society who is being harmed by them? Does the society not then itself become its own superior authority? If so, is it correct to believe that a society of man is an appropriate superior authority?

I would also ask how adultery, theft, and murder "harm" the society? Actually, each of these things, however immoral they are, could actually benefit society in some physical or material way in a certain circumstance. However, whether each instance "harms" society or not, they are morally wrong, and we know this because God says so. The "morality" of these things cannot be based solely on whether or not they "harm" society, because sometimes their only harm is "moral" in nature.

3. The author goes on to say: "Atheists believe there is no source of absolute morality in any religious document. There are even conflicts between different moral viewpoints within the Christian churches. The various denominations can not agree on what material should be included in the Bible and which laws are applicable to whom..."

That's true. It's a good thing Catholics are called to avoid heresy and pray for unity!

4. From a Catholic perspective, none of these Biblical quotations present a problem for us.

There are parts of this post where the author actually compares a passage from the OT with a passage from the NT. If he doesn't understand the basics of Christianity enough to know the problem with that, then he has no business discussing it at all, let alone making proclamations about what he thinks Christians believe or should believe based on the Bible snippets he is using.

How can we address the author's confusion and misinterpretation if he is this confused about the Bible to begin with?

And, once again, the Bible is not referenced by all "theists."

Evanescence

113

if an atheist does something good...

by DannyBloem in

.

if an atheist leads good life with high moral standards, because he choice to do so and thinks for logic it is a good thing, does it not mean much more then when a theist does the same, because his gods tells him to do it?

what's your thoughs on this?

Evanescence

We believe in one true Church alright, Christ's Church, headed by Him. We just don't believe that it is headed by men or an organization! We believe it is the Holy Spirit's job to give the "correct interpretation of scripture" NOT THE CHURCH (or the POPE)!
2 Peter 1:20
First, you must understand this: No prophecy in Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation. 21

No prophecy ever originated from humans. Instead, it was given by the Holy Spirit as humans spoke under God's direction.

Look closer at the scripture

20 First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 because no prophecy ever came by human will, but men and women moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. This scripture condemns the idea of "Sola Scriptura" that is to interpret the bible on your own. If anything it supports the Church magisterium.

And here is more scriptural proof

1 Corinthians

28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers; then deeds of power, then gifts of healing, forms of assistance, forms of leadership, various kinds of tongues.

Mathew 18:15-17

15: "If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.

16: But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses.

17: If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

And who's to decide what that correct interpretation will be? The one that YOU think is true? Or maybe one of the 1000+ christian religions that claim to have the correct interpretation?

One can't simply give up and say there are too many denominations.

It is easy to cut them down to size as I referred to before with history.

How old is your church?

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/history.html

Only the Catholic Church can make the claim of being the One Holy Apostolic Church. Only the Catholic Church can trace it's history back to the early Christians.

But then don't go claiming you have the truth and the rest of us have the moral codes of animals. A very unfeeling and unchristian sentiment, BTW.

The Catholic Church believes that other Christians have "partial truths"

We know there is truth out there, the claim "nothing is true" is contradictory for that also means that statement is also not true.

If it helps, I recommend this website www.threestepstothefountain.com

Evanescence

113

if an atheist does something good...

by DannyBloem in

.

if an atheist leads good life with high moral standards, because he choice to do so and thinks for logic it is a good thing, does it not mean much more then when a theist does the same, because his gods tells him to do it?

what's your thoughs on this?

Evanescence

A lot of you refer to some "book" but you forget that the book points to Christ's body, his Church.

1 Timothy 3:15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

Granted we have the big problem here of having countless protestant denominations arguing over the correct interpretation of scripture. But what is one of their basic beliefs? Sola Scriptura (bible alone) of course. Protestants don't believe in the "pillar and foundation" of the Truth. The one true Church that keeps scripture at its correct interpretation.

Another key factor to look at is history.

How old is your church?

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/history.html

Jehovah's Witnesses as you all know already was founded by Charles Taze Russel in 1874. Where did the WT get the authority to interpret scripture from?

I can understand if atheists find religion off putting due to all these denominations and constant arguments over scripture interpretation, I really don't blame you at all.

With the world religions we can see all faiths trying to reach out to a God or supernatural being. However there is one faith that shows God reaching out to man and that would be Christianity. One of the very basic traditions is we are called to be witnesses of Christ; this means we are to know God personally.

Also there is no denying that evil has been done in the name of God. We are still sinful beings and fall short of the glory of God.

Evanescence

113

if an atheist does something good...

by DannyBloem in

.

if an atheist leads good life with high moral standards, because he choice to do so and thinks for logic it is a good thing, does it not mean much more then when a theist does the same, because his gods tells him to do it?

what's your thoughs on this?

Evanescence

if an atheist leads good life with high moral standards, because he choice to do so and thinks for logic it is a good thing, does it not mean much more then when a theist does the same, because his gods tells him to do it?
what's your thoughs on this?

Atheist individuals can definitely be good people and live good lives. It is the "atheist worldview" which can be of concern.

A theist or Christian don't necessarily do good because "their God told them to do it" at first Christians must submit to the law but then the "law will set you free" because of our human sinfulness we need laws for direction and as a starting point, but as you grow in your spiritual life you will be "set free" and will do good not because it is required by the law, but because of your love towards one another.

Now concerning the "atheist worldview" now don't be offended when I say this, I am referring to the "worldview" not the atheist individuals themselves.
As a previous poster joked before "they will do good if it is for survival" that is exactly the atheist worldview, "survival of the fittest"

If this is the case then we cannot say what Hitler did was wrong, in the end war is just that "survival of the fittest"
In an atheist worldview, there cannot be any certain "right" and "wrong" "good" or "bad"

So as an atheist supporting the atheist worldview one cannot say "I do GOOD things" If they do, then they are contradicting their worldview.

....What is good exactly? Where do our morals originate from? If there is no certain good and evil Then the closest we can get to is "disagreement" You can't really say "my opinion is right and yours is wrong" concerning morals, because there is no "right" and "wrong"!

Think of a world with no moral law...

If someone was to push in front of you while standing in the line would you say "Hey that is not fair, I was here first" ? If the other person ignore you and say "tough luck pal"

Why not belt the living daylights out of the lunatic and show him who's master? Isn't that what the atheist worldview promote?

Evanescence

81

Excommunication is good!!!!

by I-follow-the-narrow-path in

jw
friends

while talking to my teacher today we talked about excommunication.

i told her i thought it was mean to not talk to those members which have been excommunicated.

she told me; however, that those who leave the church should be punished.

Evanescence

I would never be Catholic.. are you kidding me? I don't except Idoltry (cross worshipping)-- my relatives are Catholic however and some have tattoed the cross on themselves. That is just sick!

Hello, I-follow-the-narrow-path. I am a Catholic lurker on this forum, and I noticed that you have made an interesting claim about the Catholic Church.

May I ask, what gives you the impression and what makes you believe that Catholics idol worship the cross?

Evanescence

5

Governing Body and The Pope

by SickofLies in

i have found this a good line of reasoning to use with jw's to really get them thinking, are there any differences between the governing body and the pope?

i can think of a lot of similarities, and the wtbts officially condemns the practice of having a 'pope' like figure in charge.

http://www.popechart.com/faq.htm

Evanescence

Authority: As head of the Roman Catholic Church, the pope is the supreme spiritual leader of the Church and controls the church doctrine. With a billion followers, the pope's decisions impact societies and governments all over the world. (The connection here with the GB is obvious, although the WTBTS only has 6 million followers, their practices of no blood; shunning and door to door apostasy have affected many countries and families around the world.)

Both the Pope and the GB's doctrines supersede the bibles authority, they are both considered to be God's channel for communicating with humans on earth, both are considered to be inspired or guided by holy spirit.

I guess some newfaiths survive by saying that they trace back to the time of early christians... But really the watchtower has no proof of existing beforehand, nor historical proof at all.

I take it from your post your more in support of "Sola Scriptura" bible alone. I can understand your viewpoint eversince yes there are a lot of false prophets who claim to have the authority. However look at it from this point, protestants believe in Sola Scriptura but look at how many protestant denominations there are! Millions! Who sadly cannot agree on one interpretation on scripture.

That would be the main reason why I believe in the magisterium of the church, to keep the truth at all its fullness.

God bless

Evanescence

36

Who here is not former Jehovah's Witness?

by omerp in

just wondering who else is lurking besides me?

Evanescence

I'm not a JW nor former JW I pop in from time to time (not as often as I used to) and lurk a little on topics of interest.

I am Christian/Catholic, what about you?

Evanescence

26

So what about Lent and Easter??

by Super_Becka in

ok, so today is the first day of lent (which is painfully obvious to me because i've chosen to give up my favourite snacks for lent and right now, i have a really bad craving for doritos), and it got me to thinking, once again, about wts doctrine and the whole banning of holidays thing that they have going on.. i've read the reasons behind banning things like birthdays, christmas, halloween, mother's and father's day and national holidays like canada day and independence day, but i have yet to read anything about lent and easter.. so, what's the line of reasoning behind the banning of lent and easter??

and i don't mean easter as in chocolate bunnies and easter eggs and all of that, i mean easter as a religious celebration of the resurrection of christ.

after all, jws have the memorial of the crucifixion, don't they??

Evanescence

I decided to give up more of my time each day in prayer and reading from the scriptures... as well as praying the rosary more often...

I also make sure I go to confession at least once during Lent...

Some Catholics on a Catholic forum I post on decided to give up posting on forums for lent... that must be hard considering forums are addictive lol!

Wow interesting to know there are a lot of similarities in the Catholic and Anglican church, protestant churches generally are against traditions and think they are "meaningless"

I'm guessing JW's are againt easter because they think its "pagan" like everything else... do they call the chocolate bunnies "idols" as well?

Evanescence