Zagor.. right on topic. You and I have discussed this issue of education before on another thread. I reently had a weird experience with an old jw friend of mine. This woman at one time had been a true " origional", a real thinker. Great sense of humor, great insight..had been in college at the time someone started a Bible study with her. When I first met her I gravitated to her immediately as she was not stuffy and prissy and always "on" like so many of the dubs I knew. In her house you could discuss the greater world out there, debate ideas and have a great time just talking and tossing around ideas. You could talk like a real person at her place.
I lost touch with her for a few years and when I saw her again I was struck by the most awful sense that my old friend had been stolen and this imposter had taken her place. Gone was the humor, no more debates, no deep intellectual discussions. She had not had a stroke but her affect was as flat as someone who had...sort of a wide eyed flat stare and all these harsh-edged "borgisms" began to come out of that flat face. I was shocked. She's not the only one I've seen this happen to.
The stale rehash of the same old crap year in and year out, the warnings against information not regurgitated by the WTBTS has taken it's toll on these people. It's criminal that young people are told not to get an education, not to stretch their minds and find out what they can do in this life. One of the purest joys in life is the exploration and development of our God given intellect.
From early childhood I was in love with the mysteries of language, the magic carpet ride of imagination, the heady worlds revealed in books. I attribute my sanity having survived the bizzare teachings of jw to the fact that I ignored their assinine warnings about what not to read. I WISH more of them could see what is being done to their minds!!!
Only reading what some man made religion tells you to read is like only eating one kind of food. Remember the macrobiotic diet craze that went around a couple of decades ago? People were told that ALL their nutritional needs would be met by eating ONLY brown rice. Variations of this unhealthy approach to food still comes around and I have seen it in the pediatric ward I worked on recently. The afficionados of this diet all look beige coloured,just like the rice they are swilling down three times a day, and become listless and lethargic. This is what happens to a starved mind.
And SWILL certainly comes to mind when I think of what they are cranking out of the WT these days!!! LOL
zulukai
JoinedPosts by zulukai
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Intellectual starvation among JWs
by zagor inwanted to write another topic entirely, but after quite some thinking i thought that one particular topic should be addressed.
especially, for people still feeling confused.
we often wonder why so many dubs looks like zombies, why it is hard to make them see the real truth about the truth, why cant they discuss any topic in depth without resorting to reasoning book or other wtbs literature, why it is that they are so easily manipulated, why it is that they are filled with apostate state of mind fears (fearing to question anything), why, why, why?
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zulukai
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Do you have any 'holdover' beliefs?
by AllAlongTheWatchtower inafter reading and responding recently to a post about eating pork and clean and unclean meats, and also a few about newfound freedoms and pleasures that some enjoy now that they are out of the jws, i got to wondering if there is anything like that on the flip side of the coin.
in other words, despite you leaving the wts, is there anything you still believe that they taught, even though you left or were forced out, and no longer believe the rest of the jw doctrine?.
i was never a jw, but i was raised in a rather similar group called the worldwide church of god, many of the controls, strictures, and abuses that i saw as a child there, i see posted about here-though they are different, they are also the same.
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zulukai
Welcome...interesting info, Had no idea the WCG were so similar in some beliefs. I still don't do the xmas thing, see no point to the Easter thing. These are relics from ancient religions that have outlived their purpose in my opinion. My kids celebrate all of it and I'm OK with it. They have never said one word to me about my disinterest in those times of year, but lately I have wondered about what they missed as kids and will ask them about it again, We talked about it years ago but I still feel pangs for what their JW upbringing stole from them.
Everytime the first full moon of the spring equinox rolls around I get reflective as I still believe, but the thought of organized religion makes me nauseous. I did until recently, believe that perhaps all the evil in the world meant that we WERE close to a catastrophic meltdown.....by God, I hoped!
This is the power of brainwashing for you. I feel creeped out everytime I drive past a KH...they look quite a bit like concentration camp housing,austere and devoid of life....just like what goes on behind the walls,
You"ll have to house clean one pocket of trash at a time. Some of it will probably stay with you for the rest of your life, but you don't have to let it RULE your life anymore. The food prohibitions are just plain redundant. They served the nation of Isreal for reasons best known by God, and food scientists and were all done away with when Isreal and the Law passed from the world stage as the truth of it's day.
Hope you will find a way to de-program yourself and get rid of the fears. Life really should be enjoyable. -
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Help! I am having feelings of doubt.
by cab1000 inwhen jesus "selected" the faithful and discreet slave!.
"faithful and discreet slave" and therefore that the society was not.
the witnesses as "the faithful and discreet slave".. .
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zulukai
Hi, Cab and welcome! You started out with the righteous fire of conviction, don't let your family snow you with the time honored jw red-herring fishing derby. All the people I somehow managed to keep in touch with over the many decades I've been out have ALWAYS trotted the "name of Jehovah" argument out as some sort of authoratative incantaton proving in the face of all factual proof to the contrary, that they ARE the true religion. Sort of like a last, desperate parting shot...their version of THE BIG GUN. Don't buy it. Not now, not ever. The day I realized that Christianity is a way of life, NOT a religion, I started to dismantle the insidious organizational knee-jerk rationalizations that plague most of us long after we leave. BTW, the watchtower org.actually printed an article sometime in the late '60s I think, giving credit for the use of the name Jehovah to the efforts of a Jesuit priest in the 1800s. But every jw I know thinks the WTBTS thought it up on their own. The DEFINATIVE hallmark of a true Christian was LOVE, agapè. I don't see much of that anywhere in this abusive org. If anything the organization calling itself by God's name has brought nothing but reproach upon that name. You don't have to look far to find tons of proof for that statement. In fact there's an avalanch of it out there!! Your arguments were RIGHT ON !! Don't back off. As soon as their balsa wood pedestal begins to collapse they drag out the apostate word......sort of like the way a mountain climber on a slippery slope digs his ice axe in at the last moment because that's all he's got to hang onto. The moment the name calling starts they're fixing to cut you loose, so don't falter now.
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The first time I've been "down" b/c of JWD...
by upside/down ini've had good and bad days since stumbing onto jwd... and i've learned more in my short time here than in the last 20 years as an "active" and true to the bone...dub.... but today (tonight) i'm really sad... the tone of almost every thread i read has gotten "ugly".... i love "spirited" discussion, but this is different.
it feels like forum anarchy.. is there no yielding anymore...?.
maybe it was just too much happened today... or solar flares or something... i don't know...don't care.... maybe my new found "love" for my country (not the blind patriotic crap) and life coupled with the obvious animosity toward this love by some...well just bums me out.
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zulukai
Hey UD!! It's me again. I tried to pm you a " warm fuzzy" about the flak you were taking on another thread but I obviously don't know what I'm doing with message thing. I don't know why your sarcasm strikes others the wrong way. I LOVE sarcasm! I love spontaneous heart-felt out bursts! You come across as volatile and real, a person with strong feelings and convictions and I for one appreciate it!! :- )
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Death of innocent people
by Norm inagain we have been witnessing a hideous, horrible act of terrorism where cowards and maniacs have blown up innocent people.
it is thoroughly distressing and revolting.
being a bit cynical about it this it is in all probability a payback to britain for blairs staunch support to george bush.
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zulukai
Upside, You have a PM :- )
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A special Christian message to terrorists.......
by WingCommander inlondon has my sincerest condolences on this great day of tragedy.
during this difficult time, it is easy to become full of hate and want vengence.
i know all about those feelings, and i remember in the bible somewhere where it states, "vengence is mine, sayith the lord.
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zulukai
Tetra!! Do not feel bad. When people post stuff we all sometimes jump in with our thought of the moment. I personally like a mix of funny and serious. Your comments were right on by the way, thought provoking, even as we laugh about the jokes.
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Gerrit Loesch GB Speaker at KC convention
by stillajwexelder ingerritt loesch was the gb speaker today at the kc convention - and what a boring old fart he was - i fell asleep and so did my wife
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zulukai
It's been my observation that almost every religious fruitcake leader who rages and rails against porn or other sexually charged issues and goes off the deepend about such nonsense as what people wear out to dinner is hiding MAJOR secrets of his own.
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Explosions London Buses & Trains
by Crumpet ini can';t get through to any of my friends at liverpool street including my ex.
am really worried!
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zulukai
Sad day in London...my heart goes out to all concerned!!!
Robdar, these comments are for you. I am no expert on the Muslim religion but I did live in Saudi Arabia for six years and worked among adherents of the Wahabi sect of Islam, which you may know is the terrorist arm of this religion. You can say what you want in defence of this religion but I have had first hand experience with the reality of it and I would like you to know that the Muslim religion does indeed teach that Jews and Christians ARE infidels, end of story.
Islam has two faces...the version they trot out for potential converts and their public image, and the REAL agenda which is that they and they alone are the TRUE religion and Allah has given them a clear mandate to destroy western civilization...they can even quote Koran scriptures to prove this. I have seen them. Muslims believe that all of mankind were born Muslim, but that most of us became APOSTATE. They teach that those who do not return to the TRUE faith will be killed and sent to Hell and this job has been given to the holy and pure people of Islam. This is what a jihad means and a jihad against Western civilization has been declared a few times since Osama Bin Laden went on international TV to declare holy war against the West, in the '90's. A JIHAD is a HOLY proclamation of death and is never recalled.
I've heard the spin Islam puts on their teachings in order to mollify the rest of the world but I am here to tell you there is indeed another reality...again being played out this time in the streets of London. There are a great number of nominal Muslims, just like there are nominal Christians and the hardcore scism of Wahabi Islam has declared death to them too. The adherents of this faction are legion, they have sent "cells" into almost every culture on earth to await the signal to rise up against their neighbours and kill them. Variations on this theme appeared every Friday in the Arab newspapers all across Saudi Arabia the whole time I was there.
The Islamic newspapers of that country regularily published articles that were inflammatory and hate filled. The "People of the Book" ie: Christians were openly sneered at on a regular basis. And the word Isreal uttered in casual conversation would get you in serious trouble with the hospital administrators. On the world map in the ward lunch room the country of Isreal had been scrubbed out with black paint. So please don't believe the Muslim spin doctoring that goes on. What kind of people publish an article all across the nation that tells it's readership that the Jews, as a part of their Sedar tradition serve up the blood of Arab and Christian children as part of the ceremony?
This bizzare article was denounced in Western magazines and newspapers but the Saudi government never retracted it.
England has the most twisted and openly seditious Muslim population I have ever read about....they have for years been milking the British system and declaring Jihad on their host country. Now they have struck just as they promised. You may believe the smoke and mirrors tactics if you like. They have the very same Theocratic Warfare teachings of the witnesses and the same elitist beliefs. This alone should have warning bells ringing like mad.
Respectfully...Zu -
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What really bothers me about my JW research.
by ithinkisee insome of you may know, but i have been on a serious journey through watchtower "theology", and by association, have gone back all through the history of christianity.
i know many on this list have gone thru the same thing.
i have checked out probably 100 archeological, religious, and history books from the library.
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zulukai
Swirlgirl...that's exactly how I felt for a long time after I left...just reading all this terrible stuff makes me vibrate with rage. I think what shook me the most was realizing that certain witness people I used to know and had regard for are NOT bothered in the least by all this evidence. As one earlier poster said about his "lovely sister" she could care less about all the evidence he presented to her. I've seen them float away from confrontation with a sicky sweet smirk on their faces and an arrogant wave of dismissal....it's just like arguing with "dial -a -prayer".
When you recall the Jim Jones Kool-aid bunch and those pathetic wackos that killed themseves because they believed a spaceship to a heavenly paradise was waiting for them behind that comet a few years back could ANYTHING about religious perversion shock a person anymore? False religion has always demanded human sacrifice.
A few years back I met up with an old witness friend and was stunned to hear her whole conversation revolve around "the organization" the same way she once spoke about God. It was chilling. I knew then that something fundamentaly evil had truly taken over.The cretins at the top know they have the r&f precisely where they want them. They can flip-flop all they want and destroy the gullible all they like and anyone who has the gall to hold them accountable is flung aside like trash. They don't have to recant their terrible blood guilty deeds, they know their special minions will dutifully follow along behind them like clowns behind a rodeo parade and pick the horse shit up with their bare hands if need be. -
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Apocalypse Delayed hypocrisy
by grissom inin a post on this board, .
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/93777/1.ashx .
there is criticism over the publication of the book, .
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zulukai
Hey Grissom-Rambaldi: I've read your posts before. I am fairly new to the ex-jw forums but a long-time escapee of the JW experience. Within a very short time on the forums I was amazed at how JW posters are immediately recognizable. Not one of you ever actually reads the content of the posts you reply to. Your sentence structure and anemic intellectual capabilities mirror that of the regurgitated rehashed pap of the WTBTS to a T. (T by the way for "TRITE") You think that NONE of us here know what the Bible says, have never at one time read it, cherished and wholeheartedly believed it??? You haven't come to the support board for disallusioned used car salesmen, you are deep in the territory of the walking wounded, victims of a failed-false prophet. Do you even know or care how many times the WTBTS has predicted certain years were the end? Do you have ANY idea of the wreckage of entire lives over these false prophecies? Does it even matter to you that NO religious organization has the right or the divine mandate to predict when the actual end "of this old system" will come when JESUS himself said 'NO MAN knows the day or the hour, not even me' ?? And by the way Jesus wasn't speaking to or about a group of FORMER christian followers he was fortifying his little band against the DIS- belief system of the general masses who scoffed at him and his teachings. We here are NOT doing that, we ARE however,pointing a well deserved finger at a sick and powermad group of fear mongers calling themselves The Faithful and Descreet Slave Class who over the course of more than 100 years pulled SEVERAL end time dates out of their collective butts, force fed them to innocent followers and when it all came to nothing sneered that "certain overzealous ones ran with mere suggestions and led themselves astray." I am tempted to tell you to start doing some independent research on your prized religion but it's evident from your posts that you are devoid of critical thinking abilities. Your mind works like a computer programmed to only cut and paste...I haven't read one single post you've made that didn't sound like an echo of pre-digested Watchtower gruel. Listen up sweetheart, keep reading this forum...you are guaranteed to run into plenty of people here who once believed just as you do. Maybe one day we'll hear your REAl self on this board.