Posts by Fatfreek

14

Can anyone give me references to the following flip-flop doctrine?

by ukescott in

who is the 'lord' as mentioned in romans 10:12-16.

1903 - 'lord' refers to jesus.1940 - 'lord' refers to jehovah.1978 - 'lord' refers to jesus.1980 - 'lord' refers to jehovah.

Fatfreek

Great flip-flop summary list, Blondie. Thanks, as always.

This is such a wonderful thread because the lurker and browser is exposed to objective instances where the Society exposes itself to being the very worst organization a Supreme Being could choose as His earthly representative. Flip flops (and at times, flip flop 4 or more times) are outstanding examples of their lack of the very guidance they claim.

Unlike the alibis for their failed date predictions where blame is laid at the feet of the rank and file, at least one flip flop is explained where the holy spirit directed it (I suppose you could infer that the Holy Spirit is to blame, a gross inference). I refer to Blondie's reference to the Superior Authorities (known earlier as Higher Powers).

1879-1929--Superior authorities, secular governments
1929-1962--Superior authorities, God and Jesus
1962-now--Superior authorities, secular governments

They explain (I'm paraphrasing here) the years 1929 to 1962 as tough wartime years where the JW's at that time needed special comforting and guiding thoughts that the wicked governments were not especially superior. These thoughts, though admittedly untrue, could carry them through tough times. Yes, they say, the holy spirit must have directed this teaching reversal at a time they needed it most.

I like the word Terry used above -- balderdash .

Fats

11

The JW and the apostate -- who's faith is vulnerable?

by Fatfreek in

in this fantasy reality series, you are in charge of a hotel with 100 rooms.

they are empty with certain exceptions mentioned below.

you are also in command, for one day, of 100 jw's and 100 jw apostates.

Fatfreek

However,look at the group one year, five years, and 10 years later... you will see that the marjority of witnesses silently leaving the organization.

Yes, NY44M.

And how many have left their apostate ways? I mean, right now, take a count on your hand -- a count of the ones DF'd or DA'd because they no longer could swallow the lies and control and the arrogance -- but then went back to the org.

I just did and not one finger in my hand was used in counting. Of course, as the ad says, Results will vary .

Fats

11

The JW and the apostate -- who's faith is vulnerable?

by Fatfreek in

in this fantasy reality series, you are in charge of a hotel with 100 rooms.

they are empty with certain exceptions mentioned below.

you are also in command, for one day, of 100 jw's and 100 jw apostates.

Fatfreek

Yes, Winnie, I see your point. Fantasies are pointless with the exception that they exercise our imagination to think outside the box. Doing this, at times, yields occasional success with some ventures. I don't pretend that it would certainly work here.

Yes, Winnie, my family was torn apart some 29 years ago where two of my boys shun me till this day.

If I had such an opportunity with one, or both, of these boys -- in a room for a day -- I'd make sure and have some of those older publications all bookmarked.

I've never been one to argue about JW interpretations even when I was one of them. Interpretations are subjective. It's your word against the Society's, your interpretation versus theirs. A lie, however, is not subjective. A lie is like a box score at a baseball game. It's objective; it's black or white; it's there or it's not there; it's intentional and willful, not a mistake. You can't erase it no matter how hard you try.

You see, I'm one of those who came out way back then because I could see the lying and the coverups -- specifically those where predicted dates failed. Where, for example, predicted dates in one publication (1874) were magically (most folks call that coverup) turned into a different date (1914) in some publication much later where memories of the masses have faded.

I think, perhaps naively, that most (not all, as your example illustrates) JW's are honest people who given an opportunity to see with their own eyes the Society's own written lies (in their own literature -- enter the motel's library) and coverups, would be uncomfortable -- may even lose a bit of sleep. It may take time (dvw could be right), but such an experience may cause them to explore further.

To get my boys back would be worth all that effort -- and a thousand times more.

Fats

11

The JW and the apostate -- who's faith is vulnerable?

by Fatfreek in

in this fantasy reality series, you are in charge of a hotel with 100 rooms.

they are empty with certain exceptions mentioned below.

you are also in command, for one day, of 100 jw's and 100 jw apostates.

Fatfreek

In this fantasy reality series, you are in charge of a hotel with 100 rooms. They are empty with certain exceptions mentioned below.
You are also in command, for one day, of 100 JW's and 100 JW apostates. You order them to pair off into separate rooms, 1 JW and 1 JW apostate each.
Each room is furnished with a complete collection of WT literature dated back to 1880.
Each room is furnished with a computer with access to the internet.
For the sake of this temporary arrangement and to prove how powerful their faith really is, the Society has given its 100 members amnesty (relax, this is a fantasy) from its shunning policy. This, of course, in order to promote a true dialog between each party.

Questions:
Whose faith would be most vulnerable? Perhaps better questions would be:
How many JW's would remain JW at the end of the day?
How many apostates would remain apostate at the end of the day?
Would you take up such a challenge?

Fats

6

The Society's mum on this book, "THE TETRAGRAMMATON and ... Greek ....

by Fatfreek in

here's a strange one.

i found this book online, a free to download pdf copy of .

"the tetragrammaton.

Fatfreek

And what a good researcher you are, good friend. I just did a search for that name inside the book and got no hits. A brilliant guy, however, and either is, or was, an Oregon legislator. Prolific writer on all kinds of subjects. Obviously too intellectual to join the cult. I have no idea how someone like that could sit in on more than a few meetings. Thanks for jumping in to my rescue. Fats

6

The Society's mum on this book, "THE TETRAGRAMMATON and ... Greek ....

by Fatfreek in

here's a strange one.

i found this book online, a free to download pdf copy of .

"the tetragrammaton.

Fatfreek

Here's a strange one. I found this book online, a free to download pdf copy of

"THE TETRAGRAMMATON
and the
CHRISTIAN GREEK SCRIPTURES"
A comprehensive study of the
divine name in the original writings of
the Christian Greek Scriptures (New Testament).
First Edition, 1996
Second Edition 1998
Released for internet, 2000

http://www.tetragrammaton.org/tetra.pdf

I did a little skimming and although I can't find a named author, I find that the author was probably a JW. For all I know he continues as such. This online book also reveals letters he wrote to the Society and local officials in his attempt to get some kind of feedback to this massive undertaking before actually publishing it. He got none. Short of that he may have released it to the internet out of frustration.

I found the following quotation very puzzling.

"Note to the reader: Prior to, and during the duration of this correspondence (except for a short interval at the death of a family member), the author regularly attended either a Theocratic School/Service Meeting or a Book Study. (Weekly attendance continues until present.) At no time prior to the July 15, 1997 date suggested in the author's letters was there confirmation that the books and letters were received, nor was any attempt made to explain why a meeting would not be convened. In addition, at no time has there been formal communication of any kind from the Service Department, the District or Circuit Overseers, or the congregation Elders to either this request or to the subsequent letter dated July 18, 1997."

Can someone fill us in on this mystery? Who is the author. Is there any more we can learn about the circumstances of their refusal to communicate with him (or her).

Fats

33

how can we answer them?

by Cordelia in

jw
friends

i've tried and i've tried now i need help, how do you answer:.

jws who think it's fantastic that jeh is providing this new light all the time, i say about the rev book amongst other things and they just think it's a sign they are in the right religon coz '''what other religon would admit it's faults?

'' doesnt matter they been studing wrong light last time!!.

Fatfreek

That's a great list Terry. When they've predicted (a prophet does exactly that) in error, and that list tells us they've done that a time or two --- or thousands, it brings to mind that great saying, "If It Looks Like A Duck And It Quacks Like A Duck, it must be a duck."

Fats becomes a Master member. Hooray!

20

Worst platform jokes

by Fleshybirdfodder in

jw
friends

remember those jokes we heard time and time again from the platform yet still everyone got a good (fake) chuckle?

i remember hearing this one a million times: "a pioneer was stressing about which vehicle to buy for service, but remember, jesus said '"follow in my footsteps, not my tire tracks!!!

fbf.

Fatfreek

An elder's slip of the tongue three times during a public talk. While referring to the bubonic plague of the 1300's, he used the term Blue Bonnet Plague.

He obviously didn't have a clue.

Fats

30

Advice please! (kinda urgent)

by Schism in

jw
friends

ok, so let's say you haven't gone to a meeting in a while.

then along comes the co visit (the first since you've stopped attending).

everyone has pretty much left you alone up until this point, right?

Fatfreek

There are a couple of schools of thought.

First, congratulations on making up your mind as to your feelings about the borg. I did my thing some 29 years ago.

However, what I did then (volunteered for DF via apostasy) is not necessarily what I would do today. By doing that I lost contact with two of my boys and they shun me to this day.

Today I would lean toward what you are currently doing and continue to pose the depression gimmick. Yes, it's a bit of untruth but they taught us how to do that in times of theocratic war?

Further, with all the things you know you can be a great assistance to your cause (and many of us) by working from the "inside". Remember, if they announce you from the platform as no longer one of the JW's you'll find that working from the outside is quite difficult. You can't influence those whom you can't talk to. Plus, you'll probably miss contact with some of those in your family that you now cherish.

Fats

20

Any more info on Nicholas Kip? (Witness apologist)

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

remember he was the witness who wrote a life story for the awake!

magazine where it explains that he taught greek and he was impressed by the new world translation and that is why he became a witness.

("how knowing greek led me to know god") well, like lots of apostates i have always found his story interesting because of course there are many problems with the translation of the greek that you might expect someone knowledgeable in the language to spot.

Fatfreek

The following is from Freeminds.org, a quote from Kip, "Since I did not learn Greek from a theologian who was teaching New Testament Greek, I was probably much more objective about it. I could look at the words with fresh eyes, free of the traditional, doctrinal notions. . . . . . . . . . . . . "...The quality of Greek scholarship in The Kingdom Interlinear Translation Of The Greek Scriptures , however, is very good....I feel it's one of the greatly under-appreciated jewels of the Watchtower Society's publications."

I find it especially interesting that his compliment is not of the NWT but of the Interlinear Translation. While this is completely out of my turf, I've seen enough discussion here that those are often two completely different animals. There have been many JW's that have stumbled over the discrepencies between the two when it comes to various doctrinal matters.

Fats