donny

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Posts by donny

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  32

  Hello and Thank You!

  by Vintagewife in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been lurking here for about 3 months and decided it was time to register and become active.

  i left the organization 17 years ago.

  like so many of you, i had endured less than christian behavior from the strong cliches that ran our congregation.

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  donny

  Welcome to JWN!!! We look forward to your future posts.

  Donny Ray
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  14

  Jehovah's Witnesses and "Reasoning."

  by donny in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  back in the mid 1980's the ones in charge of "giving food at the proper time" actually released a book called "reasoning from the scriptures.

  " although this publication supposedly used reasoning as a tool to show the truth if the truth, in reality it just served the purpose of spoon feeding the publishers as they ventured out into field service.. it wasn't until i actually used reasoning as a tool that i was able to break the shackles of the watchtower bible and tract society.. for me it was the issue of jesus selecting the watchtower society as the one and only true religion in the spring of 1919.. as i began perusing though the society's older publications, i discovered that their teaching of jesus returning in 1914 was not the firm rock of a teaching that they had long claimed.

  the 01/15/1993 watchtower had this to say on page 5.. "the watchtower has consistently presented evidence to honest hearted students of bible prophecy that jesus presence in heavenly kingdom power began in 1914. events since that year testify to jesus invisible presence.".

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  donny

  I still find it amazing that I took as long as I did to see the flaws. They kept you so busy with meetings, field service and quick-build Kingdom Hall projects that you just did not have any energy to expend on looking for flaws in their teachings. Thank "God" for the internet.
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  108

  God Says Scripture is Enough

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  from the 2013 new world translation 2 tim.

  all scripture is inspired of god and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, so that the man of god may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.. .

  as jw's we must have read that scripture a thousand times.

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  donny

  It's strange that for 3/4 of the history of Christianity, the so-called word of God was not available to anyone except the clergy, yet the churches survived. Then in the 1400's when the first bibles began to be mass produced it not only led to mass disagreements to what it actually said, but they could not even agree which books should be part of the sacred canon and which ones should not.

  Then there were disagreements as to which of the many, many versions were the most accurate. I just recently watched a debate between the KJV only crowd and ones supporting other versions. At the end of the debate I could only surmise that the KJV only group believed as tehy did just because they wanted to and not because of any reasonable points made.

  It is obvious that the first century church only relied on the Old Testament as the "all scripture beneficial for teaching." It was not until some two centuries later that anything resembling the New Testament was assembled.

  I find it amazing that the supposed "Most High" being used text as a means of people getting to know him, her or it. And not only using text, but text written in three languages and then subjected to all of the translation and interpretation we see today.

  If God was trying to send a clear message via text, then he has failed miserably. The plethora of Christian denominations, each one claming they have the correct understanding, attests to that.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations
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  14

  Jehovah's Witnesses and "Reasoning."

  by donny in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  back in the mid 1980's the ones in charge of "giving food at the proper time" actually released a book called "reasoning from the scriptures.

  " although this publication supposedly used reasoning as a tool to show the truth if the truth, in reality it just served the purpose of spoon feeding the publishers as they ventured out into field service.. it wasn't until i actually used reasoning as a tool that i was able to break the shackles of the watchtower bible and tract society.. for me it was the issue of jesus selecting the watchtower society as the one and only true religion in the spring of 1919.. as i began perusing though the society's older publications, i discovered that their teaching of jesus returning in 1914 was not the firm rock of a teaching that they had long claimed.

  the 01/15/1993 watchtower had this to say on page 5.. "the watchtower has consistently presented evidence to honest hearted students of bible prophecy that jesus presence in heavenly kingdom power began in 1914. events since that year testify to jesus invisible presence.".

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  donny

  Unfortunatley Crazyguy, people will not wake up until they want to be awakened.
• 
  14

  Jehovah's Witnesses and "Reasoning."

  by donny in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  back in the mid 1980's the ones in charge of "giving food at the proper time" actually released a book called "reasoning from the scriptures.

  " although this publication supposedly used reasoning as a tool to show the truth if the truth, in reality it just served the purpose of spoon feeding the publishers as they ventured out into field service.. it wasn't until i actually used reasoning as a tool that i was able to break the shackles of the watchtower bible and tract society.. for me it was the issue of jesus selecting the watchtower society as the one and only true religion in the spring of 1919.. as i began perusing though the society's older publications, i discovered that their teaching of jesus returning in 1914 was not the firm rock of a teaching that they had long claimed.

  the 01/15/1993 watchtower had this to say on page 5.. "the watchtower has consistently presented evidence to honest hearted students of bible prophecy that jesus presence in heavenly kingdom power began in 1914. events since that year testify to jesus invisible presence.".

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  donny

  Back in the mid 1980's the ones in charge of "giving food at the proper time" actually released a book called "Reasoning from the Scriptures." Although this publication supposedly used reasoning as a tool to show the truth if the truth, in reality it just served the purpose of spoon feeding the publishers as they ventured out into field service.

  It wasn't until I actually used reasoning as a tool that I was able to break the shackles of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.

  For me it was the issue of Jesus selecting the Watchtower Society as the one and only true religion in the spring of 1919.

  As I began perusing though the Society's older publications, I discovered that their teaching of Jesus returning in 1914 was not the firm rock of a teaching that they had long claimed. The 01/15/1993 Watchtower had this to say on page 5.

  "The Watchtower has consistently presented evidence to honest hearted students of Bible prophecy that Jesus presence in heavenly Kingdom power began in 1914. Events since that year testify to Jesus invisible presence."

  I would soon discover that statements like this were outright deceptions.

  The first president of the Watchtower Society, Charles Russell, had befriended a man named Nelson Barbour who published a religious magazine called "Herald of the Morning." Russell became fascinated with the biblical chronology laid out by Barbour and especially liked the scriptural reasoning that Jesus was to return in 1874.

  When that time passed and nothing happened Barbour became disillusioned. Russell however latched on to the fact that the Greek word "parousia", usually translated as "coming" or "arrival", could also mean "presence". When Russell suggested that Jesus did return in 1874 invisibly and that he was indeed present, Barbour rejected it and he and Russell went their separate ways.

  In 1879 Russell founded the Watchtower Society and began a ministry based on this understanding that Jesus returned in 1874. This statement of belief was repeated in the Society's publications as late as 1929 and was not officially rejected until 1943.

  So why did I think that this particular "old light" carried more weight than most of their other "adjustments?"

  Simply put because the Society claimed that it was because of the truthfulness of its teachings that led Jesus to select them.

  But there is a problem here. If one reasons about this claim then it soon becomes obvious that Jesus either did not select them at all or he was in a trance due to sniffing too much mustard seed.

  If he had really looked at the Society after he sat on his throne in 1914, the first thing that should be obvious to him was that the Watchtower was in the midst of a flurry of false predictions and they could not blame them on "Christendom."

  First of all, they were not "on the watch for his return" as the organization claims today. They were not watching for such because they currently believed he had retuned and been present since 1874 and took power in 1878. This was being taught well before and well after 1914.

  "... 1874 as the time of our Lord's second presence as Bridegroom and Reaper, and to April 1878 as the time when he began to exercise his office of King of kings and Lord of lords ..." Studies in the Scriptures - Thy Kingdom Come (1911 ed.) p.150
  "Bible prophecy shows that the Lord was due to appear for the second time in the year 1874. Fulfilled prophecy shows beyond a doubt that he did appear in 1874. Fulfilled prophecy is otherwise designated the physical facts; and these facts are indisputable." Watchtower 1922 Nov 1 p.333

  "Surely there is not the slightest room for doubt in the mind of a truly consecrated child of God that the Lord Jesus is present and has been since 1874;…" Watchtower 1924 Jan 1 p.5)

  "“The Scriptural proof is that the second presence of the Lord Jesus Christ began in 1874 A.D.”" Prophecy 1929 1,589,000 ed. p.65

  So a reasoning person is supposed to believe that Jesus began examining the worlds religions after he took power in 1914 and 5 years later he not only selected a group who was spewing loads of false prophecies, i.e. God would destroy the churches in 1918 and the worldly governments in 1920, he also selected a group was in the middle of a false campaign stating that he had returned some 40 years prior.

  It was reasoning on this claim that finally opened my eyes to the deceitfulness of the "faithful and discreet slave. They were neither faithful or discreet and I became convinced that the Governing Body was fully aware of this deception and their only interest was in controlling the thoughts and actions of others.

  So I tendered a letter of disassociation on September 1, 1992 and 24 years later I am glad I made that fateful decision in spite of the agony and mental aguish I encountered in the first few years after leaving. From time to time I would recall the lyrics of Boston's song "Don't Look Back."

  Don't look back, A new day is breakin'
  It's been too long since I felt this way

  For those of you still in the grips of the Society, do yourself a favor and actually use reason as a tool to decipher what the Watchtower teaches and see if it really measures up to its nickname "The Truth."
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  72

  I never realized that Hitler's persecution of the Witnesses was worse than that of the Jews

  by ThomasCovenant in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  'the terrible persecution of jehovahs witnesses by hitler, worse than that he inflicted on the jews, took place.

  '' wt 1966 15th oct page 635.

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  donny

  I remember a Watchtower article written by late Governing Body memeber Martin Poetzinger where he stated the reason that the JW deaths were true martyrs compared to the Jewish ones was because the Jews had no choice in the matter, they would die regardless of any action on their part.

  However all a JW had to do was renounce the faith and they would be released, so those would remained steadfast and were executed were doing so because they really loved God.

  Donny
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  68

  The problems Bible believers have with Atheists is the burden of proof is on the Believer and we just do not have enough proof.

  by booker-t in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i recently posted a post telling this board my athesit coworker stumped me with questions about the validity of the ark story and i just cannot stop talking to her.

  i love hearing her side and point of view which in the past i would have dismissed as "satanic" thinking.

  she has some very good questions and i am having a hard time answering them.

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  donny

  Science and Religion

  Christianity tried to strangle science in the crib
  Read the story of Galileo, if you think this is a fib.
  If you’re not quite full
  There’s a lot more bull.
  Try counting each and every rib!

  Logic And Faith 'The Tug Of War'

  by Gilbert Sampson Deafening heartbeats as necropolis befalls the place
  Curiosity takes his seat as Faith makes her case
  her coaxing argument stronger as a clay vase
  Conformity smiles in her ally’s swayed face
  
  her words ambiguous and vague as in her name
  tell me! She barks have you ever seen your brain?
  if not how then are you certain he’s sane
  must we heed to disputes of an unseen brain?
  
  short for words to tell them next
  she clasps the scripture and beats her chest
  my name is Faith in me you trust
  a ride to God I’ll drive the lost
  
  with me in you attest the creed
  the whole universe whatever you see
  is God’s handiwork an art of He
  who came for you to save and bleed
  
  allies of Faith content with what they heard
  Logic arose snickering and scratching his beard
  he coughed to be certain his throat is clear
  Curiosity’s ears again drew near
  
  his words were harsh though firm in mind
  listen to me! He roared with thundering voice
  it’s folly by me seeking what I can’t find
  to reason is maturity so I made that choice
  
  the scripture you hold is nothing but book
  it’s plain to see but you are blind to look
  your name is Faith even you is lost
  to believe a tale of a man on a cross
  
  in you I attest the imprudence indeed
  billions of years the universe had been
  and that toddler you see is my very own seed
  her name is Faith please not Eve
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  51

  Poor Animals

  by HeyThere in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  wow.

  the bible really is something else.

  i believe i am becoming athiest.

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  donny

  The more I read the Bible without any filters the more obvious it was to me that its author was not a being of the most high order. It is simply the musings and tales of a bronzed aged people who were trying to make sense of the world at that time and it was used to maintain order.

  I am reminded of the shirt on http://dogmadebate.com/ with David Smalley. It reads "I am an atheist because I have read it."

  Donny
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  27

  Did You Ever Stumble Anyone?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i don't think i ever did but i would have been honored to do so..

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  donny

  Yes. I was told by a couple of elders in my congregation that I had stumbled someone at my place of employment because I spelled out a curse word in a department meeting.
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  91

  one reason for the dumbing down of the org

  by Magnum in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  a lot of us have said that theres been a dumbing down in jw land.

  its just not like it used to be especially a few decades ago.

  it seems to me that if jw are right and the end of the world is near, the spiritual food should get tastier and more nourishing as time goes on, but it's getting more and more bland and less nourishing.

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  donny

  I believe Ed Dunlap wrote the Commentary on the Letter of James.