One more ringing endorsement for "Lost Chrisitianities"
If you've only read the "All Scriptures Inspired" version of Biblical history, this book will be extraordinarily eye-opening.
Posts by sir82
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19Who Wrote the New Testament? by Burton Mack
by ithinkisee insomeone mentioned this book in another thread (getbusyliving i think), so i checked it out from the library.. it is a decent enough book but was a little put off by the almost sarcastic/antagonistic tone throughout much of the book.
he throws around the word "myth" as much as the society throws around the word "truth".
even the title of the book "who wrote the new testament?
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The Anointed, the Numbers and the GB
by thinker inhave you ever considered the anointed, the number of partakers at the memorial and the governing body together?
if you examine the number of partakers you can clearly see that sometimes the numbers increase.
i asked some jws about this and their reply was, "those are replacements for unfaithful ones".
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sir82
This is going to be a huge headache for the GB in about 10-20 years time.
Then, the GB will be composed entirely of persons born after the "magic date" of 1935. I.e., per JW theology, all members of the GB will be "replacements" of "evil slaves".
I fully expect the number of Memorial partakers to remain steady, or even increase, over this time. The few remaining, capable-of-thought JWs ought to be thinking "Wow, there sure were an awful lot of unfaithful anointed. How 'faithful' & 'discreet' could they have been?"
I'm also quite sure plans are in teh works for dealing with this. Options I can quickly think of:
-- Stronger enforcement of who is actually counted as a partaker. Elders will be instructed to make a determination, based on field service & "overall spirituality". of who might truly be "anointed", and not count the obvious nuts who partake each year. This buys a little time, as it will result in the 8000 number finally decreasing significantly.
-- Dropping (quietly) the 1935 cutoff date. Perhaps stating "very few of those partaking before the inspection of 1919 were 'truly anointed'". The implication being that some who began to partake later really weren't "replacements".
-- Less likely, but conceivable: Dropping the horribly tenuous argument that the number 144,000 is literal. There is still a "little flock", but is not necessarily limited--just smaller than the 6.5 million "other sheep".
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Prophetic Failure: They Can't Escape!
by metatron ini picked up a new book called "new religions: a guide".
in the section on jehovah's witnesses, it says:.
"a major blow in knorr's presidency was the failure of the prediction that the world would end in 1975, which had been predicted.
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sir82
How to apologize without really accepting responsibility:
It is to be regretted that these latter statements apparently overshadowed the cautionary ones
Can't...quite...bring themselves to say "we regret", can they?
Imagine a similar scenario:
Wife: "I hired a private detective! He followed you going into that motel with your secretary! I have videotape of your affair!"
Husband: "It is to be regretted that such a tape seems to have portrayed certain actions"
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The Mother of all conspiracy theories
by Junction-Guy inok first of all whenever i get a strong feeling about something im usually right.
even though for years as a child i was taught the jw doctrine and it seemed to make sense biblically, at least back then.
but yet i had a strong sense of doubt, but it was nothing specific i could point the finger to, just a gut feeling that there was something wrong with the jw religion.. now here's my main point.
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sir82
Better tighten up that tin foil hat--you can't be too safe!
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Wither JW prophecies if the UN disbanded?
by dmouse inreading the newspapers over the past few weeks i have become aware of a massive groundswell of disillusionment regarding the united nations.. comments such as: .
while the isg report provides embarrassing reading for all those who actively participated in saddam's scam, the real victim is the un itself, whose claim to the moral high ground when confronting rogue regimes and dictators now lies in tatters.. .
yet the lofty words were made to an audience somewhat lacking in firepower.
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sir82
Let's see, that would make it...
... the beast that was, but is not, but would be again, but is not again, but will be again....
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Quotes story is on popular news website!!!!!!
by rebel8 insorry for starting yet another "quotes" thread, but i thought this was cool/unusual news.
i submitted it and they published it!
www.fark.com watchtower sues webmaster for $100k, claims quoting their literature causes them loss of reputation and embarrassment.
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sir82
The clowns in the WT legal dept. have just no #@%$^ clue about how the world works now.
I can easily imagine them having a prayer just before their meeting, then determining "while under holy spirit" that "yeah, if we threaten him with a lawsuit with some big $ amount, we're quite sure he'll just fold up & quietly go away".
Of course, they must be absoutely blindsided that there are now all kinds of websites, read by untold thousands, proclaiming messages like "WT sues webmaster for printing in-context quotes of their own material which embarrasses them"...and are undoubtedly now praying even more fervently that the mainstream media doesn't pick up on the story.
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Service Meeting week of September 12, 2005
by TheListener insong 29.
10 min: local announcements.
selected announcements from our kingdom ministry.
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sir82
See we do encourage BIBLE reading. Not only WT reading! ;Thanxs 4 the props
Then why, on page 3 of the insert considered in the very next meeting part, is a "Bible study" explicitly defined as "studying the Bibe along with one of the approved publications" (followed by a list of the 3 "approved publications")?
I.e., if I open & read the Bible, and systematically discuss it with my neighbor, but do so without the guidance of one of those approved publications to explain the meaning of what I really read, then per the WT definition, I am NOT "conducting a Bible study".
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1914 Has Been Strongly Re-emphasized ( Oct 1 WT)
by metatron into all you people who naively think that the geezers at watchtower central are slacking off.
from 1914, i've got bad news:.
they are emphasizing it strongly, as if to quell any thoughts about its abandonment.. the oct 1 watchtower with the cover "do you recognize the sign?
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sir82
For my money, the bigger problem facing the WT is the 1935 date. Assuming that someone would need to be near-adult to be eligible for "anointing", the youngest of the "truly anointed, not replacements" would be 85 years old this year.
As the years go on, and the number of Memorial partakers continues to hover around 8000 (or even increases), even the most brain-dead JW would have to realize something is seriously wrong with the doctrine. Sure, there could have been a few bad apples among the anointed (there was the "Bethel apostacy" of the early 80's, no?), but the idea of thousands and thousands and thousands of anointed needing to be replaced...should lead to at least an uneasy feeling.
My prediction of the next date to get dumped is 1935, not 1914. Either that, or some "new light" on either what "spirit anointing" really is, or conceivably even a revision of the literal 144,000 number.
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Watch Tower sues Quotes for $100,000 plus plus plus...
by Quotes incourt file no.
superior court of justice.
watchtower bible and tract society of .
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sir82
Wait a second here...these are "Christ' brothers", anointed by divine Holy Spirit.
They are overseeing all of Jesus' possessions here on the earth. They are the most important humans alive on the planet right now (at least in their own minds).
Quotes' website is "infringing on their copyright", "causing them embarrassment", causing them "lose reputation and goodwill", etc.
And the requested penalty for such umbrage against the Most High himself???
A whopping $100,000!
When Uzzah broke Jehovah's law, he got zapped by a lightning bolt. When Ananias & Sapphira lied to the apostles, they fell down dead in a heartbeat. 42 children who had the temerity to make fun of Elijah were torn apart by bears.
And now, the best the modern-day "Prophet of Jehovah" can do is politely ask the Canadian courts to "get that mean ol' Quotes"?!?!?!
Where is the fire & brimstone? Why isn't Quotes' house a smoldering radioactive crater by now?
I don't know, if I were the Almighty, and my chosen representatives acted thusly, I might be a little miffed that they thought "working against my holy spirit" had a cash value of $100,000.
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what scriptures do JWs use to support....
by jaredg inthe guidelines for being reinstated?
the reason i ask is because as it is now the cong.
wants a dfd person to go to meeting for at least 6 months, write letters requesting reinstatment and meeting w/ the elders to show that you are repentant.
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sir82
they decided it was time for the son to be "reinstated" into the household. Only then could the son speak to the other members of the household and sit in his normal place at the dinner table.
But you forgot other key parts of the parable...
The son could sit at the dinner table, but was on restrictions from using any silverware. Gradually, after many months, he was granted a spoon. A few months later, a fork, and so on.
He was, of course, immediately granted the privilege of cleaning out the stables.