Posts by CatholicGuy

13

Ephesians 4:1-3

by YoYoMama in

jw
friends

*** rbi8 ephesians 4:1-3 ***.

4 i, therefore, the prisoner in [the] lord, entreat you to walk worthily of the calling with which you were called, 2 with complete lowliness of mind and mildness, with long-suffering, putting up with one another in love, 3 earnestly endeavoring to observe the oneness of the spirit in the uniting bond of peace.

jehovahs witnesses are a united people.

CatholicGuy

Catholics are more works oriented and Protestants recognize works as evidence of faith but not grace.
Eph. 2.8,9

Actually, this is a common misconception of Catholic belief. Protestants often refer to the Catholic concept of "merit." In reality, Catholics and Protestants approach the faith/works controversy from different angles but in the final analysis are saying the same thing. See this link from the Catechism (sections 2006-2011):

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c3a2.htm#III

In Catholic theology all "merit" (any reward owed us for our actions)is all a gift of God. St Augustine said: "Our merits are God's gifts." St Therese of Lisieux said:

"After earth's exile, I hope to go and enjoy you in the fatherland, but I do not want to lay up merits for heaven. I want to work for your love alone....In the evening of this life, I shall appear before you with empty hands, for I do not ask you, Lord, to count my works. All our justice [righteousness] is blemished in your eyes. I wish then, to be clothed in your own justice [righteousness] and to receive from your love the eternal possession of yourself."

10

Let's get the word out, give me urls!

by serenaj92 in

jw
friends

there are a lot of great sites on this message board but so i don't miss any, would you post them here.

i would like to construct a few emails to show people just what its like in the org.

even some sites that show a perspective from someone other than a witness.

CatholicGuy

Since so many people studying with Jehovah's Witnesses have had a Catholic background, I'd suggest this link:

http://www.webshowplace.com/question/home.htm

It has a great list of questions for JWs and also some info on Child Custody issues.

CatholicGuy

18

Do JWs still believe the WT version of the 144000?

by nicolaou in

jw
friends

the society have taught for many years that only 144,000 individuals will have embraced true worship from the time when jesus (and presumably john the baptist six months before him) began his ministry in about 30 c.e.

when the great crowd began to be drawn in.. however, even a casual reading of the book of acts shows the phenomenal growth of christianity during the time of the apostles.

in colossians ch1 paul even makes the comment that the good news had at that point been preached to all creation that was under heaven.. in 64 c.e, there were so many christians in rome already that nero felt he could easily blame them for the destructive fire which had swept through the city.

CatholicGuy

For Chappy,

The Catholic Church does not view the "elect" as meaning only a few will rule the earth. The mystery of the Kingdom of God starts out as a small mustard seed but grows into a full grown tree. As far as the Catholic view on these things see the _Catechism_:

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc2.htm

Particularly the section "The Hope of the New Heaven and the New Earth" (sections 1042-1050):

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a12.htm#VI

Some of the figurative language of Revelation is explained in sections 1137 and 1138 of the _Catechism_. In essence, the 144,000 is seen as a figurative number that shows the People of God here on earth now and the "great multitude" is the heavenly scene of the same people seen after their glorification:

1137 The book of Revelation of St. John, read in the Church's liturgy, first reveals to us, "A throne stood in heaven, with one seated on the throne": "the Lord God." It then shows the Lamb, "standing, as though it had been slain": Christ crucified and risen, the one high priest of the true sanctuary, the same one "who offers and is offered, who gives and is given." Finally it presents "the river of the water of life . . . flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb," one of most beautiful symbols of the Holy Spirit. 1138 "Recapitulated in Christ," these are the ones who take part in the service of the praise of God and the fulfillment of his plan: the heavenly powers, all creation (the four living beings), the servants of the Old and New Covenants (the twenty-four elders), the new People of God (the one hundred and forty-four thousand), especially the martyrs "slain for the word of God," and the all-holy Mother of God (the Woman), the Bride of the Lamb, and finally "a great multitude which no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes, and peoples and tongues."

CatholicGuy

18

Do JWs still believe the WT version of the 144000?

by nicolaou in

jw
friends

the society have taught for many years that only 144,000 individuals will have embraced true worship from the time when jesus (and presumably john the baptist six months before him) began his ministry in about 30 c.e.

when the great crowd began to be drawn in.. however, even a casual reading of the book of acts shows the phenomenal growth of christianity during the time of the apostles.

in colossians ch1 paul even makes the comment that the good news had at that point been preached to all creation that was under heaven.. in 64 c.e, there were so many christians in rome already that nero felt he could easily blame them for the destructive fire which had swept through the city.

CatholicGuy

I've asked these questions of many Witnesses and I usually get a "I see your point" answer.

"If the number 144,000 is a literal number in Revelation chapter 7--then is the number 12,000 from each of the "tribes" also literal? Are there literally 12 groups of 12,000 which comprise the 144,000? Or are the numbers 12 and 12,000 figurative? And if they are figurative--wouldn't consistency require that the number 144,000 also be figurative?"

CatholicGuy

13

Ephesians 4:1-3

by YoYoMama in

jw
friends

*** rbi8 ephesians 4:1-3 ***.

4 i, therefore, the prisoner in [the] lord, entreat you to walk worthily of the calling with which you were called, 2 with complete lowliness of mind and mildness, with long-suffering, putting up with one another in love, 3 earnestly endeavoring to observe the oneness of the spirit in the uniting bond of peace.

jehovahs witnesses are a united people.

CatholicGuy

Don't stop with verse 3. The next verse says:

"One body there is, and one spirit, even as you were called in the one hope to which you were called;"

There is only "one hope" for Christians--to be with Christ. (BTW, Christians are not saved by works but by God's grace.)

CatholicGuy

A couple of favorite webpages:

http://www.webshowplace.com/question/home.htm

23

News Flash: October Ends - World Remains

by ChuckD in

jw
friends

well, our resident sooth-sayer yk has once again missed the mark, as october ends and the world spins on.

but then again, as was the case in 1914, the world may have come crashing down but i failed to notice.

CatholicGuy

Well, there are a few possible reasons for this "delay." ;)

Remember, that the Apostles lived according to the Julian Calendar. That means that October is with us for about another two weeks.

Or, it is possible there is an inter-calculary month (basically a "leap month") due in the Hebrew calendar which would stretch things quite nicely.

The most likely explanation is that at the time midnight November 1, 2001 the Yankees were poised to dash the hopes of the Arizona Diamondbacks in the World Series and that these prophecies applied to these two teams. (We had the time right but we were expecting the wrong things.)

CatholicGuy

not my webpage but a favorite:
http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZHOME.HTM

21

Could I have your thoughts???

by mindfield in

jw
friends

more specifically, could you tell me your thoughts on verses such as:.

matthew 24:14. and could anyone give me some factual stats on the fact that jw's dont actually preach worldwide, or at least aren't recognized worldwide???.

and yes, i do need to be reassured!

CatholicGuy

Well, put, Lionel.

And for that next question: "but who else uses Jehovah's name?" just get out the _Comprehensive Concordance of the NWT_ and look up the name "Jehovah" in the NT. Even if we use the NWT as our accepted text does Jesus himself emphasize the name "Jehovah" in his everyday speech? From what I can see Jesus only utters the name "Jehovah" in the NWT 3 times apart from Old Testament quotations (and there is absolutely no NT Greek manuscript evidence for the name "Jehovah" in those quotations anyway). Instead, Jesus uses "Father" and "God" to refer to God. What is really telling is to compare the usage of "Jesus" in the _Comprehensive Concordance of the NWT_. The NWT "restores" (with no NT Greek manuscript support) the name "Jehovah" 237 times to the NT. How many times does the name "Jesus" appear in the NT of the NWT? Over 900 times!! Which name is emphasized in the NT of the NWT?

CatholicGuy

not my webpage but a favorite:
http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZHOME.HTM

21

Could I have your thoughts???

by mindfield in

jw
friends

more specifically, could you tell me your thoughts on verses such as:.

matthew 24:14. and could anyone give me some factual stats on the fact that jw's dont actually preach worldwide, or at least aren't recognized worldwide???.

and yes, i do need to be reassured!

CatholicGuy

And why would Matthew 24:14 apply to a very small religious body?

How many millions of Bibles have been distributed by various Bible Societies? Besides, the "good news" to be preached is that of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Cor. chapter 15) and not that of some invisible second coming of Christ in 1914 (which the JWs admit they didn't understand until way after the fact).

Now, who is more known for preaching the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as their main message? Jehovah's Witnesses or Christians?

CatholicGuy

9

Ex-Witnesses in Oregon?

by CatholicGuy in

jw
friends

i voluntarily disassociated from the jws in 1980. i was actively involved in ministry to jws and ex-jws for the next 10 years.

the past 10 years or so i've moved on with my life and lost touch with much of what was happening with the watch tower society and ex-witnesses.

of course, growing up in the witnesses leaves its imprint on you.

CatholicGuy

The Bethelites from Oregon I remember:

Duane, Joel and Leon Hamberg
Dan Struck
Doug Hardy
John Wick

Haven't talked with any of these in over 20 years. Don't know if they're still in or even alive.

CatholicGuy

13

Re: the WT's "library card" defense

by CatholicGuy in

we've seen internet copies of paul gillies letter and the translation of the letter sent to beroea.

does anyone have a hard copy of a letter from the society in english that can be scanned in?

it would seem that someone at the un could comment on the society's characterization that they never understood their membership as a ngo to be anything more than allowance to use the un library.

CatholicGuy

I'm not sure if the leadership's "tissue of lies" will work out so well for them. I think if we can get a hard copy letter from the Society to contrast with the letter from the UN we can go back and get further comment from someone at the UN. Basically, the Society's position is that the NGO/DPI office is lying: their involvement with the NGO/DPI was only a sign-up for permission to use the UN library. I think we need a hard copy letter to approach the NGO/DPI office. If they won't comment is there another section of the UN (higher up?) which could do an internal investigation and tell us who is telling the truth: the Watch Tower Society or the DPI office? An internal investigation could reveal: 1)The existence (or non-existence) of applications signed by Watch Tower officials for association as a NGO; 2)whether or not _Awake!_ articles regarding the UN were submitted by the Watch Tower Society to the Resource Library and what they contained; 3)other possible correspondence between UN officials and the Watch Tower Society.

CatholicGuy