Posts by Jeffro

272

A Video Series about 607 BC vs 587 BC

by Londo111 in

this is the main series playlist:.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=plynx0om_bmgbfmnapjr_v5fe9_pf8sqa1.

this is the accompanying video appendix:.

Jeffro

Still no sources. Still no actual information. Still no real defence of your dogma.

You're just parroting the same old crap. Just go away.

272

A Video Series about 607 BC vs 587 BC

by Londo111 in

this is the main series playlist:.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=plynx0om_bmgbfmnapjr_v5fe9_pf8sqa1.

this is the accompanying video appendix:.

Jeffro

I did not claim that no sources suggest 537 (though none of those sources support 607). You said that scholars say 538 is "impossible". You lied.

And still waiting for you to present the supposed "scholarship" and "scholarly literature" in support of your views. Of course, you know very well that scholarship does not support your views, and for that reason, you claim to accept 'the Bible' (the Watch Tower Society's interpretations thereof) in spite of scholarship.

We're barely touching the fringes of the many problems with your 607 dogma, and you're already on the back foot trying to defend the 'maybe' in regard to the Jews returning in 537.

It's just lie after lie after lie with you.

someone else a fearsome poster

Are you just putting random words together now? And it's called Google Books.

In order to impress scholar you must quote much better sources

LOL. I don't really give a damn what 'impresses' you. You were asked to provide sources not only repeatedly today, but years ago and you didn't. Still waiting on your chart of the divided monarchy too. I owe you nothing.

272

A Video Series about 607 BC vs 587 BC

by Londo111 in

this is the main series playlist:.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=plynx0om_bmgbfmnapjr_v5fe9_pf8sqa1.

this is the accompanying video appendix:.

Jeffro

scholiar:

Your hypothesis which has some agreement with scholars is based on higher criticism which denies the Bible as God's Word.

Wrong again, liar. I've reconciled the scriptural accounts on the matter completely.

I would rather have a belief system that has the approval of God than a belief system that is based on human reasoning.

Extraordinarily presumptuous to claim you have "the approval of God" simply because you accept the beliefs of a minor Adventist sect.

My experience with you in the past is that you have no interest in what is published in academia

Now you're resorting to outright lies. Fact is, you just can't back up your claims. Get lost.

272

A Video Series about 607 BC vs 587 BC

by Londo111 in

this is the main series playlist:.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=plynx0om_bmgbfmnapjr_v5fe9_pf8sqa1.

this is the accompanying video appendix:.

Jeffro

Sources indicating return in 538 BCE from Google Books search. Not an exhaustive list.

Fire Bible-NIV-Student - Page 580, Donald Stamps, Carey Huffman, J. Wesley Adams – 2009: “In stage one (538 BC), 50000 exiles returned, led by Zerubbabel and Jeshua (cf. Ezra 2).”
Fire Bible Student Edition: New International Version - Page 580, Hendrickson Publishers, Carey Huffman – 2010: “Note that the first group of Jewish exiles in 538 BC returned to Jerusalem”
Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible - Page 449, 2000: “According to Ezra, the exiled Jews returned to Judah and Jerusalem en masse in response to a decree by Cyrus king of Persia (538; 1:1-4).”
The Catholic Encyclopedia: Volume 8, Charles George Herbermann, Edward Aloysius Pace, Condé Bénoist Pallen – 1913: “I. HISTORY OF THE JEWS. — This history may be divided into various periods in accordance with the leading phases which may be distinguished in the existence of the Jewish race since the Return in 538 bc”
A History of the Christian Tradition: - Page 22, Thomas C. McGonigle, Thomas D. McGonigle, James F. Quigley – 1988: “The Return from Exile In 538 BCE a new political power, Persia, ...”
The Controversial Sholem Asch - Page 269, Ben Siegel – 1976: “Apocalyptic tendencies that led to both Jewish and Christian Messianic movements were apparent as early as Ezekiel, but they did not "flower" until after the Jewish return (538 BC) from Babylon. “
Kings of the Jews: the origins of the Jewish nation - Page 152, Norman Gelb - 2010 - 246 pages : “RETURN TO ZION Like their return from Egypt almost eight centuries earlier, the return of the Jews from Babylonia was in waves, beginning in 538 BCE.”
Jews and Christians: Graeco-Roman views - Page 3, Molly Whittaker – 1984: “When the Persians took Babylon, some of the exiles were permitted to return (c. 538), although many remained...”
The amazing adventures of the Jewish people - Page 37, Max I. Dimont – 1984: “The first Zionade, launched in 538 BCE, had a distinguished leadership — two princes of the house of David, ...”
The Creative Era Between the Testaments, Carl Gordon Howie, Carl Gordon Howie – 1965: “Under provisions of the royal decree, Sheshbazzar, who was appointed governor of the Jerusalem area, and his company of fellow Jews left Babylon for Jerusalem during the reign of Cyrus. The immediate purpose of their return in 538 BC ...”
Fantastic Victory: Israel's Rendezvous With Destiny - Page 129, W. Cleon Skousen – 2011: “One year later, in 538 BC, Cyrus authorized 50000 Jews to return to the ruins of their beloved Jerusalem for the purpose of rebuilding it. These 50000 “Zionists” required four months to reach their destination and were led by a man who ...”
The Last Tango in Baghdad - Page 1, Albert Khabbaza MD, Albert Khabbaza, M.d. – 2010: “The Jews were dispersed mostly to Persia and Babylonia. The opportunity to return arrived in 538 BCE when Cyrus of Persia issued the famous decree permitting the Jews to return to Jerusalem and rebuild their Temple.”
The Age of the Maccabees, Annesley William Streane – 1898: “BEFORE entering on our main subject, it is desirable that we should take a brief retrospective glance over that part of the earlier history which lies between the return of the Jews from their captivity in Babylon (538 BC)...”
Holman Concise Bible Dictionary - Page 210, Holman Bible Editorial Staff – 2011: “Jehoiachin's grandson, Zerubbabel, led the first exiles back from Babylon in 538 BC (Ezra 2:2; Hag. 1:1).”
The Jewish People: A Pictorial History, Israel Program for Scientific Translations, Israel Program for Scientific Translations – 1973: “Permission was given to the Jews to return to Jerusalem and rebuild the Temple. The first return in 538 bce involved 42.360 free men and 7337 slaves; the territory assigned to them was small..”
Merriam-Webster's collegiate encyclopedia - Page 857, Merriam-Webster, Inc – 2000: “Cyrus the Great allowed them to return in 538 BC, and the Temple of Jerusalem was rebuilt.”
The myth of the Jewish race - Page 97, Raphael Patai, Jennifer Patai – 1989: “We can gain a very rough idea of the extent of Jewish-Babylonian intermarriage in the half-century that elapsed between their arrival as exiles in Babylon and their first return to the land of Judah (538 BC)...”
A Guide Through the Old Testament - Page 16, Celia Brewer Marshall, Celia B. Sinclair – 1989: “Jews return to Judea from the Exile beginning in 538”
Exile: Old Testament, Jewish, and Christian conceptions - Page 89, James M. Scott – 1997, “including the return in the year 538 under the leadership of Sheshbazzar (Ezra 1 ).”
A Concise History of the Jewish People - Page 11, Naomi E. Pasachoff, Robert J. Littman – 2005: “the return to Israel under the Persians in 538 BCE”

272

A Video Series about 607 BC vs 587 BC

by Londo111 in

this is the main series playlist:.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=plynx0om_bmgbfmnapjr_v5fe9_pf8sqa1.

this is the accompanying video appendix:.

Jeffro

In fact your interpretation is simply one amongst many and is also all over the place.

At the risk of stating the obvious... so is yours. (Though mine isn't "all over the place".) Except no one outside of JW fantasy land agrees with yours. At least mine has broad agreement. And mine is entirely consistent, and does not rely on magical thinking or circular reasoning.

You're a waste of time. I'm not interested in your bluster. Provide the sources of the supposed 'historians' supporting your claims or just get lost.

272

A Video Series about 607 BC vs 587 BC

by Londo111 in

this is the main series playlist:.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=plynx0om_bmgbfmnapjr_v5fe9_pf8sqa1.

this is the accompanying video appendix:.

Jeffro

scholiar:

One trip took four months which included a party of 1000 persons but the former trip was much larger with a more detailed description of the returnees so common sense would indicate that this journey was in fact much larger unless they travelled by rail, ship or plane.

They had an additional three months on top of the length of the later journey. And you have them travelling at the same time of year anyway. Insight (volume 1, page 458) agrees with the journey of the larger group taking four months; I'm assuming they weren't basing that on "rail, ship or plane". Idiot.

Historians discount 538

Which ones?

Scholar is not impressed

Still talking about yourself in the third-person? You should probably get that checked. I don't really care what 'impresses' you. You're clearly beyond help (at least for now). As stated earlier, I reply to your drivel for the benefit of other readers.

mischevious diagrams

272

A Video Series about 607 BC vs 587 BC

by Londo111 in

this is the main series playlist:.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=plynx0om_bmgbfmnapjr_v5fe9_pf8sqa1.

this is the accompanying video appendix:.

Jeffro

scholar:

It would appear ... interpretation is required ... it is not clearly stated ... if Ezra used the Spring calender ... if Ezra used autumn calender ... we cannot be certain

A bunch of speculation. This is the basis on which you consider the 70 years to have begun in 607. It's laughable. And you expect other people to accept your nutty religion based on that?!

And your interpretation of the 70 years is still entirely wrong anyway, because it was a period during which "all these nations" would "serve the king of Babylon", and not a period of Jewish exile. Based on the direct statement at Jeremiah 25:12, there is simply no valid way of shifting the end of the 70 years beyond the fall of the Babylonian empire in 539 BCE.

there is a firm view that 538 BCE is highly unlikely

Whose "firm view" are you citing?

Despite your claims, 538 BCE fits perfectly.

272

A Video Series about 607 BC vs 587 BC

by Londo111 in

this is the main series playlist:.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=plynx0om_bmgbfmnapjr_v5fe9_pf8sqa1.

this is the accompanying video appendix:.

Jeffro

Also, when Ezra and over a thousand other people (Ezra 7:7-9; 8:1-14) went from Babylon to Jerusalem in 458 BCE, based on the NWT rendering, the four months of the journey included preparation time. Note Ezra 7:9:

For on the first [day] of the first month he himself appointed the going up from Babylon, and on the first [day] of the fifth month he came to Jerusalem, according to the good hand of his God upon him.

272

A Video Series about 607 BC vs 587 BC

by Londo111 in

this is the main series playlist:.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=plynx0om_bmgbfmnapjr_v5fe9_pf8sqa1.

this is the accompanying video appendix:.

Jeffro

pseudo-scholar:

I fail to see how you have answered the question and I also fail to see how Josephus is inconsistent with our position.

In that case, you're an idiot. The Jews were allowed to return in 538 BCE (though many remained in Babylon). You still have not explained how in your view May of 536 BCE can fall in the second year of Cyrus. Nor have you explained the 182.5 years from the end of Israel until Cyrus.

Further, we are not dogmatic about 537 BCE for the Return but according to the facts to hand the date 537BCE is the most likely data based on all of the avilable information.

So your entire world view is based on something you consider to be 'likely'. Still waiting on your basis for why you imagine 537 to be the "most likely" year.

The date 538 is impossible for the simple fact that the time frame is too short.

Based on what?! They had at least seven months to make the four month trip, and in your interpretation, you posit them leaving at the same time of year anyway, but just a different year.

272

A Video Series about 607 BC vs 587 BC

by Londo111 in

this is the main series playlist:.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=plynx0om_bmgbfmnapjr_v5fe9_pf8sqa1.

this is the accompanying video appendix:.

Jeffro

If you are going to rely on Josephus then please explain then in what year did the Exiles Return according to his presentation of matters?

Your question has been answered previously.

I thought you just said Josephus is consistent with your view... You are stalling in order to avoid providing a basis for your dogmatic claim about 537.