Jeffro

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Posts by Jeffro

• 
  39

  Going to Kingdom Hall for first time

  by InChristAlone in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  since my family is out of town, and i am alone this weekend, i have decided to attend this once to see these things for myself.

  have no fear, i have absolutely no interest in joining.

  my goal is simply to better understand how to reach those who are on the inside, and i feel i could better do that by observing it.

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  Jeffro

  Gayle:

  You may be loved=bombed

  Gayle's wrong. You will be love-bombed.
• 
  31

  Would YOU force blood on a Witness?

  by stillin in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i was recently chastised here for saying that i respected my wife's steadfast loyalty to her god.

  suppose you were a medical assistant and your doctor/supervisor told you to hang blood on a witness patient?

  zero respect?.

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  Jeffro

  stillin:

  I feel the same way as UnConfused about that. They get something from their beliefs. I didn't get it. Why should I rain on their parade?

  It would be fine if they got something from it and didn't bother anyone else. But it is a requirement of their religion that they attempt to convince others of their fraudulent beliefs. That is a good reason to 'rain on their parade'.

  But as to the topic of the thread, medical personnel administering a blood transfusion isn't forcing beliefs on anyone, even the treatment might in some circumstances be forced. The legality of such action would be a matter for the courts, but in a life-or-death situation, that could be handled post facto.
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  22

  The most important day of the year. Sometimes. Sort of.

  by Jeffro in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for jehovah's witnesses, the "most important day of the year" is supposed to be the 'memorial'.

  this 'sacred' event is to be held after sunset on nisan 14. except most of the time, it isn't.. as 'explained' in the watchtower, 1 february 1976, page 73, the "governing body" (not capitalised at the time) takes it upon itself to 'determine' the 'actual' date of nisan 14. they claimed in the article that the 'modern' date for the start of nisan in the hebrew calendar is calculated differently to the ancient calculation.

  however, that's not actually the case.. the actual calendation for determining the start of nisan was (since at least the neo-babylonian period) and is based on the metonic cycle - a sequence that repeats every 19 years.. in the metonic cycle, the 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th and 19th years have an extra (thirteenth) month (adar ii, or veadar).

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  Jeffro

  *lost*:

  How does this all fit in with the 'Paschal Moon'

  The 'Paschal (Passover) Moon' basically corresponds with Nisan 14. It is based on computation, rather than observation, of the new moon for the beginning of the lunar month about two weeks prior. As a result, it may vary from the full moon observed from any particular location by up to two days. The date of Easter is the Sunday following the 'Paschal Moon'.
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  22

  The most important day of the year. Sometimes. Sort of.

  by Jeffro in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for jehovah's witnesses, the "most important day of the year" is supposed to be the 'memorial'.

  this 'sacred' event is to be held after sunset on nisan 14. except most of the time, it isn't.. as 'explained' in the watchtower, 1 february 1976, page 73, the "governing body" (not capitalised at the time) takes it upon itself to 'determine' the 'actual' date of nisan 14. they claimed in the article that the 'modern' date for the start of nisan in the hebrew calendar is calculated differently to the ancient calculation.

  however, that's not actually the case.. the actual calendation for determining the start of nisan was (since at least the neo-babylonian period) and is based on the metonic cycle - a sequence that repeats every 19 years.. in the metonic cycle, the 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th and 19th years have an extra (thirteenth) month (adar ii, or veadar).

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  Jeffro

  joe134cd:

  Are we to celebrate this date at the exact time that it occurred in Israel

  No.

  or are we to to celebrate it according to the local time zone.

  No.

  That should make life easier for you.
• 
  22

  The most important day of the year. Sometimes. Sort of.

  by Jeffro in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for jehovah's witnesses, the "most important day of the year" is supposed to be the 'memorial'.

  this 'sacred' event is to be held after sunset on nisan 14. except most of the time, it isn't.. as 'explained' in the watchtower, 1 february 1976, page 73, the "governing body" (not capitalised at the time) takes it upon itself to 'determine' the 'actual' date of nisan 14. they claimed in the article that the 'modern' date for the start of nisan in the hebrew calendar is calculated differently to the ancient calculation.

  however, that's not actually the case.. the actual calendation for determining the start of nisan was (since at least the neo-babylonian period) and is based on the metonic cycle - a sequence that repeats every 19 years.. in the metonic cycle, the 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th and 19th years have an extra (thirteenth) month (adar ii, or veadar).

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  Jeffro

  Doug Mason:

  The idea of Jesus' death being taking place at Passover time was Paul's idea; it most likely did not happen at that time.

  Indeed. As I said earlier in this thread, "There's no evidence that it was Jesus who initiated 'the Lord's evening meal', and it may have been an invention by 'Paul'."

  Do not build a chronology from such a feeble foundation.

  Your objection is irrelevant misdirection. No 'chronology' is being 'built' from the date of the 'Memorial'.

  The method of dating used for the event - regardless of the spurious origin of the event - simply confirms that Nisan never begins in May.

  The basis for the the date of the 'Memorial' and the fact that Nisan never begins in May is that intercalary months are only added when the year would otherwise be running too early.
• 
  22

  The most important day of the year. Sometimes. Sort of.

  by Jeffro in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for jehovah's witnesses, the "most important day of the year" is supposed to be the 'memorial'.

  this 'sacred' event is to be held after sunset on nisan 14. except most of the time, it isn't.. as 'explained' in the watchtower, 1 february 1976, page 73, the "governing body" (not capitalised at the time) takes it upon itself to 'determine' the 'actual' date of nisan 14. they claimed in the article that the 'modern' date for the start of nisan in the hebrew calendar is calculated differently to the ancient calculation.

  however, that's not actually the case.. the actual calendation for determining the start of nisan was (since at least the neo-babylonian period) and is based on the metonic cycle - a sequence that repeats every 19 years.. in the metonic cycle, the 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th and 19th years have an extra (thirteenth) month (adar ii, or veadar).

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  Jeffro

  1009:

  According to Insight that system started about 500 B.C.

  Just to clarify a bit...

  It is indeed possible that the Babylonians weren't using the 19-year Metonic cycle as early as the early 6th century BCE. In fact, they almost certianly weren't.

  The Babylonians at the time had 360 days in a standard year, so their calendar required an additional month every 5 or 6 years to make up for the length of a solar year, as opposed to the seven adjustments out of every 19 years in the Metonic cycle.

  However, their year was based on the same principle that intercalary years were only inserted to adjust for the vernal equinox (late March) . For this reason, the older Babylonian Nisanu could still never begin in May.

  By the reckoning of the old Babylonian calendar, in 568 BCE, 1 Nisanu fell in April rather than March, and definitely not in May.
• 
  22

  OCTOBER AWAKE!

  by St George of England in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just seen the new awake on jw.org; yet another university graduate, biochemist this time, that has become a jw.. he was so impressed by "is there a creator who cares?"!.

  the rest of the magazine is the usual monthly fare.. george.

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  Jeffro

  From Mindnumbed link you can see that Dr. Loos (a JW) works for a Catholic university and makes toasts when he wins prizes

  The award was in 2005.
• 
  4

  New blog post.

  by JeffT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  latest is up, this one is on the keynote address.

  i think they inadvertently told the truth about their relationship to the governing body.

  http://pathologicallyintellectual.blogspot.com/.

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  Jeffro

  What is "Research Guide for Jehovah’s Witnesses"? Is it a new Reasoning book?
• 
  8

  How many Witnesses face judicial committees each year?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i wonder if there is any way to work out a rough figure for how many witnesses face judicial committees every year?

  i guess one way would be to estimate what proportion of judicial committees result in disfellowshipping and multiply that by the official estimate from the watchtower that around 1% of jws are disfellowshipped every year.

  can any elders give a rough idea what sort of proportion of judicial committees result in:.

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  Jeffro

  slimboyfat:

  Is there any outcome I have overlooked?

  Public stoning?

  Sorry, wrong millenium...

  *** w52 11/15 p. 703 Questions From Readers ***
  The law of the land and God’s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship.

  Makes you long for the good ol' days.
• 
  22

  The most important day of the year. Sometimes. Sort of.

  by Jeffro in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for jehovah's witnesses, the "most important day of the year" is supposed to be the 'memorial'.

  this 'sacred' event is to be held after sunset on nisan 14. except most of the time, it isn't.. as 'explained' in the watchtower, 1 february 1976, page 73, the "governing body" (not capitalised at the time) takes it upon itself to 'determine' the 'actual' date of nisan 14. they claimed in the article that the 'modern' date for the start of nisan in the hebrew calendar is calculated differently to the ancient calculation.

  however, that's not actually the case.. the actual calendation for determining the start of nisan was (since at least the neo-babylonian period) and is based on the metonic cycle - a sequence that repeats every 19 years.. in the metonic cycle, the 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th and 19th years have an extra (thirteenth) month (adar ii, or veadar).

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• 

  Jeffro

  1009:

  The 'brothers' simply do not use the 'Metonic cycle'. According to Insight that system started about 500 B.C.

  Insight actually says, "Such a 19-year cycle is commonly called the Metonic cycle, after the Greek mathematician Meton (of the fifth century B.C.E.), although there is also evidence that such a cycle was perfected before him by the Babylonians."

  During the Neo-Babylonian period, the Jews adopted the Babylonian calendar, which is where they got the name Nisan (and their other month names), so there's no reason to believe the Jews used a different starting point for Nisan.

  The Memorial was instituted long after the introduction of the Metonic cycle, regardless of how the Jews were counting months prior to 500 BCE.