Jeffro

Joined

• started 46 topics
• posted 6,940 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Jeffro

• 
  47

  Question About 607BCE and How That Date Was Picked - Help JW Scholars

  by Comatose in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so i've been sharing some a little at a time with my sister.

  she is married and very scared of actually learning too much.

  she doesn't want to ruin her marriage.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  Dutchdelight:

  This topic explains it well, although it's a lot of reading. http://thetruthaboutthetruthaboutthetruth.blogspot.nl/2005/11/jerusalems-destruction-587-or-607.html

  Ho-hum.

  Everything in that article and a lot more dealt with here.
• 
  47

  Question About 607BCE and How That Date Was Picked - Help JW Scholars

  by Comatose in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so i've been sharing some a little at a time with my sister.

  she is married and very scared of actually learning too much.

  she doesn't want to ruin her marriage.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  AnnOMaly:

  No, as was already explained, scholars associated the 606 BCE date with the beginning of Nebuchadnezzar's reign, NOT the fall of Jerusalem. The fall of Jerusalem was commonly placed at 588 or 587 BCE. Russell/Barbour disagreed and insisted the chronologists had made a fundamental error.

  Well, yeah. I was too busy thinking about where they got 606 from that I got a bit muddled about what it was actually applied to in the late 19th century. Duh. jwfacts' earlier error must have infected me, but I think I'm just going to blame it on having the TV on in the background. My brain has since returned to normal programming.
• 
  32

  Another Revised NWT Thread - subtly sowing seeds of doubt with chart

  by mindnumbed in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  pages 1744 thru 1746 feature a chart of the kings of the southern kingdom, ending with zedekiah in 607.. praise the new bible and all of the teaching aids .... draw attention to kings list and how convenient that is ... but, strangely, i decided to look up information in an encyclopedia about the different kings, and the dates are not the same ... so i checked a couple of sources and they are all different than the chart in the bible .... why would that be?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  The reason for the 20-year gap during the Neo-Babylonian period is becaue of their beliefs about 607, but there is more going on with their alternative chronology for the kings of Judah and Israel, which has an increasing discrepancy the further back you go.

  Please see here for more information about how and why the JW chronology is manipulated to suit their beliefs.

  konceptual99:

  Just bumping in case anyone has a chance to comment on why there are numerous sites on the net that refer to a date of 997BCE for Rehaboam's ascension?

  The reason is similar to that of JWs (see link above), relating to biblical literalism overriding overlapping reigns.
• 
  31

  Since most JW's HATE giving talks and doing meeting parts, why does the Watchtower Society still require it?

  by yadda yadda 2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i loathed giving talks and doing meeting parts.

  i dreaded all assignments.

  i was intelligent enough and always did a good job, but all my jw life (born in to mid-30's) i enjoyed giving talks about as much as a visit to the dentist.. i am sure that 90% of all jw's similarly dislike it.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  Since most JW's HATE giving talks and doing meeting parts, why does the Watchtower Society still require it?

  I think you may have answered your own question.

  It's about control. Things that are enforced (i.e. obligations) such as joining the 'Ministry School' are touted as 'privileges', and whilst not officially 'mandatory', there is significant social pressure placed on individual members by the rest of the group to conform.
• 
  47

  Question About 607BCE and How That Date Was Picked - Help JW Scholars

  by Comatose in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so i've been sharing some a little at a time with my sister.

  she is married and very scared of actually learning too much.

  she doesn't want to ruin her marriage.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  wizzstick:

  Am I right in thinking that JW's get the 2,520 years in two ways?
  A) As above, 7 (years) x 360 (days) equals 2,520 (then day for a year)
  B) 3.5 times of 1,260 days doubled to 7 times of 2,520 days (then day for a year)
  Or is one way the old way of working it out and the other the new way?

  Both (B first, then A.)

  They say that '1260 days' as '3.5 times' in Revelation determines how long a 'time' is in Daniel (even though the word translated 'times' in Daniel can refer to various time periods and not just 'years', and it isn't the same word as that used in Revelation), to arrive at 360. Then they multiply 7 by that result to arrive at 2520.

  They don't apply the supposed 'day for a year' 'rule' for the 2 other instances of 'times' used in this manner at Daniel 7:25 and 12:7, or the reference at Revelation 11:3, all of which they claim refer to a literal period from December 1914 until mid-1918.
• 
  47

  Question About 607BCE and How That Date Was Picked - Help JW Scholars

  by Comatose in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so i've been sharing some a little at a time with my sister.

  she is married and very scared of actually learning too much.

  she doesn't want to ruin her marriage.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  jwfacts:

  Hi Legacy, there has been a lot of research into this, and no university or encyclopedia says 607. They almost universally agree that the year was 536/7.

  What encyclopedias have you been reading?! (Yes, it was almost certainly just a typo. )

  Most sources say either 587 or 586, and that doubt is largely based on ambiguity within the Bible (though careful analysis of the Bible confirms 587). Because the Babylonian calendar (which the Jews adopted) started in Nisan (March/April) and ended partway into the following year, that single year can be validly expressed as 587/6, so using "587/6" is not always an expression of doubt about one of those two years.

  Jerusalem definitely fell during 587. This can be determined exactly by comparing Jewish ('biblical') and Babylonian sources.

  C.T. Russell got 606 from other sources prevalent at the time. Many dates had been suggested in the 19th century for the fall of Jerusalem, but 606 was the most common by Russell's time. JWs didn't change it to 607 until the 1940s.

  See also Jehovahs Witnesses and 1914. I've also been working on 607 and the new NWT.
• 
  47

  just when you think you've made friends with a "normal" person

  by Hortensia in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  rode over to the farmer's market with a couple of neighbors, nice women, seem sensible.

  the driver stopped in the middle of a block and stared at the coca-cola truck that was parked there.

  she said, "do you see the round tower?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  Is the entrance to the Torchwood Institute a 'gypsy tower'?
• 
  47

  just when you think you've made friends with a "normal" person

  by Hortensia in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  rode over to the farmer's market with a couple of neighbors, nice women, seem sensible.

  the driver stopped in the middle of a block and stared at the coca-cola truck that was parked there.

  she said, "do you see the round tower?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  I had an uncle (actually my aunt's husband) who believed that "the elite" knew of 'secret passages' to 'another layer' beneath the earth's surface - not just a system of underground dwellings but a whole other 'surface' like the one we're on. I believe he got the idea from Nexus magazine.
• 
  92

  When did Theology Last add something to Human Knowledge?

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  to illustrate my question.... i am watching an episode of the australian tv program "q & a" on youtube.

  the panel includes the brilliant laurence krauss, gay bishop gene robinson, the woefully ignorant and bigoted rev fred nile and a few others.. the early questions put gene robinson under the spotlight and to be fair he comes across as a loving, compassionate, intelligent and - in his own words - "fabulous" person.

  by contrast the reverend nile is a caricature of everything that is dispicable and hateful about theism.. a self-righteous young man in the audience asks gene how he deals with the bible's condemnation of homosexuality.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  cofty:

  When did Theology Last add something to Human Knowledge?

  Does trying to tell tec where to find verses in the gospels count?
• 
  92

  When did Theology Last add something to Human Knowledge?

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  to illustrate my question.... i am watching an episode of the australian tv program "q & a" on youtube.

  the panel includes the brilliant laurence krauss, gay bishop gene robinson, the woefully ignorant and bigoted rev fred nile and a few others.. the early questions put gene robinson under the spotlight and to be fair he comes across as a loving, compassionate, intelligent and - in his own words - "fabulous" person.

  by contrast the reverend nile is a caricature of everything that is dispicable and hateful about theism.. a self-righteous young man in the audience asks gene how he deals with the bible's condemnation of homosexuality.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  People should let religion die gracefully. But probably not yet. There are still too many people who need it as either a crutch or stepping stone.