Splash:
"What Jeremiah evidently meant, was that the return to Jerusalem would be during the 70th year of exile."
I take it from the quote marks and the very JW-ish use of the word "evidently" that you're being facetious.
Posts by Jeffro
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38Question for JW apologists...
by Jeffro inthe new new world translation translates jeremiah 29:10 as follows:.
10 for this is what jehovah says, when 70 years at babylon are ful?lled, i will turn my attention to you, and i will make good my promise by bringing you back to this place.. the official watch tower society teaching is that by the end of the 70 years, the jews were back in judea, and that their actual arrival in judea marks the end of the "70 years".
*** si p. 85 par.
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Jeffro
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38
Question for JW apologists...
by Jeffro inthe new new world translation translates jeremiah 29:10 as follows:.
10 for this is what jehovah says, when 70 years at babylon are ful?lled, i will turn my attention to you, and i will make good my promise by bringing you back to this place.. the official watch tower society teaching is that by the end of the 70 years, the jews were back in judea, and that their actual arrival in judea marks the end of the "70 years".
*** si p. 85 par.
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Jeffro
AnnOMaly:
The biggest problem with the WTS's translation, "When 70 years at Babylon are fulfilled" is that this statement was addressed to the exiles taken with King Jehioachin in 617 BCE (WT time).
Of course. But here I wanted to focus on the problems with their own interpretation of this verse in isolation with respect to the new translation.
Comatose:
They will put out a WT with a really twisted reasoning to explain this away.
The thing is, that's why the old NWT said "In accord with" the end of the 70 years. That way, there was at least some 'wiggle room' for saying it 'really' meant "when the 70 years are nearly over". But now, they've made it really really obvious that their interpretation is just wrong. This makes me more convinced than ever that the Watch Tower Society occasionally does these incredibly stupid things deliberately in order to reduce the number of thinking people in their ranks.
As I said a year ago in relation to the Sparlock video:
But aside from that, I've had a theory (just a theory) for a little while about some of the things published recently by the Watch Tower Society - 'Selma and Steve', attitude toward those who leave, and now the Sparlock DVD. It seems to me that the Society might put out some of these unfavourable messages to deliberately shed some members, hanging on to the hard-core JWs and letting go of some of the 'fringe-dwellers' who consume literature for very little return to the Society. That is, those who are less likely to accept everything, more likely to do independent research, less likely to distribute literature, and, most importantly, less likely to donate.
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Question for JW apologists...
by Jeffro inthe new new world translation translates jeremiah 29:10 as follows:.
10 for this is what jehovah says, when 70 years at babylon are ful?lled, i will turn my attention to you, and i will make good my promise by bringing you back to this place.. the official watch tower society teaching is that by the end of the 70 years, the jews were back in judea, and that their actual arrival in judea marks the end of the "70 years".
*** si p. 85 par.
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Jeffro
A forum member who wants to pretend he's no longer on this forum has been responding (poorly) to this thread via PMs, and most recently claimed that '70 years' can be seen "both ways", apparently meaning that the 70 years can be counted with or without travelling time.
That is, of course, illogical, because in the JW belief, the 70 years includes the travel from Judea to Babylon (supposedly starting in October 607) and from Babylon to Judea (supposedly ending in October 537).
Apart from indicating that the person does not have a good grasp on logic, this also demonstrates well that the JW interpretation doesn't even allow for "70 years at Babylon". Since the Bible elsewhere suggests that such a trip can take about 4 months, and the 70 years (in the JW interpretation) purportedly includes two such journeys, the period "at Babylon" was about 69 years and 4 months.
Perhaps the new NWT should include some annotations for the verse:
10 “For this is what Jehovah says, ‘When 70 years at Babylon (actually 4 months of travelling to Babylon plus 69.3 years at Babylon plus 4 months of travelling to Judea) are fulfilled, I will turn my attention to you, and I will make good my promise by bringing you back to this place (even though you'll already be back here).’
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71
Did Adam and Eve Partake of Literal Fruit or is it Symbolic?
by Stauros inwas it real fruit they ate or does the fruit represent something else?.
e..
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Jeffro
Stauros:
Jeffro, take your finger on your left hand and poke your eyeball on the right side of your face. Experience the slight pain, and tell me how many functions it took to accomplish this. Its cool how the body was designed to enjoy all that life has to offer isn't it.......you can thank GOD for that.
If you want to go around poking yourself in the eye and imagining that somehow 'proves' the existence of 'god', go right ahead.
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38
Question for JW apologists...
by Jeffro inthe new new world translation translates jeremiah 29:10 as follows:.
10 for this is what jehovah says, when 70 years at babylon are ful?lled, i will turn my attention to you, and i will make good my promise by bringing you back to this place.. the official watch tower society teaching is that by the end of the 70 years, the jews were back in judea, and that their actual arrival in judea marks the end of the "70 years".
*** si p. 85 par.
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Jeffro
The new New World Translation translates Jeremiah 29:10 as follows:
10 “For this is what Jehovah says, ‘When 70 years at Babylon are fulfilled, I will turn my attention to you, and I will make good my promise by bringing you back to this place.’
The official Watch Tower Society teaching is that by the end of the 70 years, the Jews were back in Judea, and that their actual arrival in Judea marks the end of the "70 years". For example:
*** si p. 85 par. 3 Bible Book Number 15—Ezra ***
A faithful remnant journeyed back to Jerusalem in time to set up the altar and offer the first sacrifices in “the seventh month” (Tishri, corresponding to September-October) of the year 537 B.C.E.—70 years to the month after Judah and Jerusalem’s desolation by Nebuchadnezzar.*** it-1 p. 463 Chronology ***
Hence the count of the 70 years of desolation must have begun about October 1, 607 B.C.E., ending in 537 B.C.E. It was in the seventh month of this latter year that the first repatriated Jews arrived back in Judah, exactly 70 years from the start of the full desolation of the land.*** w11 12/15 p. 31 Do You Remember? ***
The Jews were released, and they arrived in their homeland by 537 B.C.E. The Bible says that their exile was 70 years long. So Jerusalem must have fallen in 607 B.C.E.That being the case, if the Jews were already home when the 70 years ended, in what manner would Jehovah "make good my promise by bringing you back to this place" after they were already there?
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71
Did Adam and Eve Partake of Literal Fruit or is it Symbolic?
by Stauros inwas it real fruit they ate or does the fruit represent something else?.
e..
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Jeffro
Stauros:
Ok Jeffro, so how did all creation really get here since you feel you know everything.......
Surely you should realise by now that that is an entirely stupid argument.
Your premise (by no means original) is that for any question that doesn't have an easy answer, any made up answer is better than "I don't know". However, even further than that, your question ignores a great deal of what is known.
Instead, you clumsily replace "I don't know" with the preposturously arrogant claim to 'know'—with no evidence whatsoever—that "God did it".
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71
Did Adam and Eve Partake of Literal Fruit or is it Symbolic?
by Stauros inwas it real fruit they ate or does the fruit represent something else?.
e..
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Jeffro
Stauros:
[The Death of Jesus]
[Jesus Pierced on his Ribs]
[The Bride of Christ (Women)]It's certainly possible that the writers who made up stories surrounding Jesus' death were alluding to the stories about 'Adam and Eve', just as many of the other stories about Jesus were deliberately written to supposedly 'fulfill' alleged 'messianic prophecies' (most of which bear no resemblance to the context of the 'prophecies').
However, that doesn't automatically imbue any special significance on aspects on the earlier story about Adam and Eve itself, which is an origin myth derived from earlier Babylonian stories (including the details about a snake and a magical plant that gives life and enlightenment), written around the 6th century BCE, which 'coincides' with exposure of Babylonian culture to the Jewish people.
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What the hell is a "land?"
by stillin inthe service reports for jw's always toots their horn about all of the "lands" that the good news is being preached in.. has anybody got a clue?
how many lands are there, total?
are lands the same as countries?.
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Jeffro
The JW use of "lands" almost equates to "countries". The exceptions are mostly islands that are actually sovereign territory of another country or constituents of a larger island group. They also count a couple of disputed territories as separate "lands". For more information, see the footnotes at the Wikipedia article, Jehovah's Witnesses by country. A few years ago, they stopped counting Alaska and Hawaii as separate "lands".
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32
Another Revised NWT Thread - subtly sowing seeds of doubt with chart
by mindnumbed inpages 1744 thru 1746 feature a chart of the kings of the southern kingdom, ending with zedekiah in 607.. praise the new bible and all of the teaching aids .... draw attention to kings list and how convenient that is ... but, strangely, i decided to look up information in an encyclopedia about the different kings, and the dates are not the same ... so i checked a couple of sources and they are all different than the chart in the bible .... why would that be?.
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Jeffro
Added shading to chart to show periods of co-regency a bit more clearly...
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71
Did Adam and Eve Partake of Literal Fruit or is it Symbolic?
by Stauros inwas it real fruit they ate or does the fruit represent something else?.
e..
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Jeffro
Stauros:
Was it real fruit they ate or does the fruit represent something else?
That's a bit like asking if Cinderella's fairy godmother really turned a pumpkin into a carriage.
