Now the new tract according to another thread is discussing 1874 in it.
Can you provide a link to the other thread?
Posts by Jeffro
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25WT gearing up to dump Russell and come clean on early history?
by Comatose inwe've discussed this on lots of threads, but i've noticed a few things lately.
they seem to be talking about the early days on a very regular basis, almost constantly.
the change to fds happens and this involved a dive into early history and a few knocks on russell.
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Jeffro
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Satan thrown to earth "about" 1914?
by wearewatchingyouman inso i'm thumbing through the new "silver sword" and i notice that in the appendix under "message of the bible" that it says, "about 1914 jesus hurls the serpent satan to the earth...." i can't remeber ever hearing the word "about" and 1914 placed together before in regards to this event.
are there any jwapologists, or anyone else for that matter, who have an explanation for this?.
http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/appendix-b/message-of-the-bible/.
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Jeffro
Funny how Rutherford decided to change the name to "Jehovah's witnesses" in... 1931.
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Question for JW apologists...
by Jeffro inthe new new world translation translates jeremiah 29:10 as follows:.
10 for this is what jehovah says, when 70 years at babylon are ful?lled, i will turn my attention to you, and i will make good my promise by bringing you back to this place.. the official watch tower society teaching is that by the end of the 70 years, the jews were back in judea, and that their actual arrival in judea marks the end of the "70 years".
*** si p. 85 par.
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Jeffro
DS211:
Is it slimboy fat pm-ing? Lol
I'm sure I couldn't possibly say.
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Question for JW apologists...
by Jeffro inthe new new world translation translates jeremiah 29:10 as follows:.
10 for this is what jehovah says, when 70 years at babylon are ful?lled, i will turn my attention to you, and i will make good my promise by bringing you back to this place.. the official watch tower society teaching is that by the end of the 70 years, the jews were back in judea, and that their actual arrival in judea marks the end of the "70 years".
*** si p. 85 par.
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Jeffro
wasblind:
Evidently, Jehovah's Witnesses no longer have " evidence" that Satan started WWI
It seems that in the JW mindset, all was well in the world and... suddenly... out of nowhere, World War I happened in the magical year of... 1914. Anyone reading only JW literature might be forgiven for thinking that, out of the blue, Archduke Ferdidand was assassinated on a whim, and that that was the very beginning of the conflict.
Back in reality, it followed on from the Balkan Wars of 1912 - 1913 (which themselves followed on from tensions that had developed throughout eastern Europe from the mid-19th century onwards).
Funnily enough, JW literature has seen fit to discuss many wars. The following wars are specifically listed in the JW Publications Index under the main entry for War:
- Peasants' War (Germany) (1524)
- Eighty Years War (1568-1648)
- Thirty Years War (1618-1648)
- English Civil War (1642-1651)
- American War of Independence (1775-1783)
- Napoleonic Wars (1803-1815)
- Opium Wars (1839-1842; 1856-1860)
- Maori Wars (sporadically, from 1845-1872)
- Castle War (Mayans vs. Spanish) (1847-1853)
- Taiping Rebellion (China) (1850-1864)
- Crimean War (1853-1856)
- American Civil War (1861-1865)
- Boer War (1880 - 1881; 1899-1902)
- World War I (1914-1918)
- Spanish Civil War (1936-1939)
- World War II (1939-1945)
- Korean War (1950-1953)
In addition, various Watch Tower Society publications discuss or at least mention just about evey other notable conflict worldwide, as well as various minor civil wars. And yet the Watchtower Library CD-ROM does not make one single mention of the Balkan Wars of 1912-1913, even when specifically addressing the history of World War I.
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Question for JW apologists...
by Jeffro inthe new new world translation translates jeremiah 29:10 as follows:.
10 for this is what jehovah says, when 70 years at babylon are ful?lled, i will turn my attention to you, and i will make good my promise by bringing you back to this place.. the official watch tower society teaching is that by the end of the 70 years, the jews were back in judea, and that their actual arrival in judea marks the end of the "70 years".
*** si p. 85 par.
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Jeffro
Doug Mason:
It simply means that instead of bring in the destruction of Jerusalem, the WTS simply has to jump from its mythical 537 date to the (undateable) exodus into Egypt. Of course that could mean that if the exodus took place in 607 and there was a 4 year gap to the destruction of Jerusalem, they would simply only have to move Jerusalem's Fall to 611 BCE.
It's that simple for them.Except that has nothing to do with the problem with the relative timing inherent in their new rendering of Jeremiah 29:10.
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Question for JW apologists...
by Jeffro inthe new new world translation translates jeremiah 29:10 as follows:.
10 for this is what jehovah says, when 70 years at babylon are ful?lled, i will turn my attention to you, and i will make good my promise by bringing you back to this place.. the official watch tower society teaching is that by the end of the 70 years, the jews were back in judea, and that their actual arrival in judea marks the end of the "70 years".
*** si p. 85 par.
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Jeffro
The previously mentioned 'phantom of the forum' has again been sending PMs about this thread. He suggested that I haven't considered... Furuli.
Oh, I laughed and laughed.
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Question for JW apologists...
by Jeffro inthe new new world translation translates jeremiah 29:10 as follows:.
10 for this is what jehovah says, when 70 years at babylon are ful?lled, i will turn my attention to you, and i will make good my promise by bringing you back to this place.. the official watch tower society teaching is that by the end of the 70 years, the jews were back in judea, and that their actual arrival in judea marks the end of the "70 years".
*** si p. 85 par.
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Jeffro
Doug Mason:
Of course the WTS does not start its "70 years" with the destruction of Jerusalem but with the exodus of some Jews into Egypt, following Gedaliah's murder.
Correct. They say the '70 years' started in October of 607, whereas Jerusalem and its temple were destroyed in August. But that doesn't help their broken interpretation of Jeremiah 29:10 highlighted by their even worse rendering in the 2013 revision.
I say that the exodus took place 4 years after Jerusalem was destroyed.
That may be the case, but it doesn't accord with the Bible, including the interpolation from Babylonian sources at Jeremiah 52:28-30, which indicates exiles taken in the year the temple was destroyed, and 5 years later. Of course, there's no indication at all that Judea was ever actually entirely uninhabited (in fact, it's known that parts of Judea remained inhabited). Even Jeremiah 44:14 refers to "some escaped ones" who went back from Egypt to Judah, years after Jerusalem had been destroyed. In any case, the idea that it took place "4 years later" has no bearing on the JW interpretation.
On top of that, when Ezra later wrote 2 Chronicles, he said that the 70 years ended when the Persians defeated Babylon, not when people assembled at the temple site.
Of course. The Bible never mentions 70 years of exile, and Ezekiel explicitly states that they started counting the exile years before the destruction of the temple.
And further, no one knows the year when those exiles from Babylon made their journey - dates from 538 to 535 are given.
It is more than likely that the way the Bible tells the story of Cyrus' decree isn't exactly what happened. In fact, it's extraordinarily unlikely that Cyrus made any great proclamations about 'Jehovah', and considerably more likely that he had a policy of religious tolerance, and allowed exiles, whether Jews or from elsewhere, to return to their homeland and worship however they liked. But, again, according to the narrative in the Bible (and supported by Josephus), the Jews who were first permitted to leave Babylon arrived in Judea in 538 BCE. And whilst Cyrus' motive is almost certainly embellished in the Hebrew narrative, there's not really any compelling reason to believe the timing in the Bible must be wrong.
In short, if the Bible is correct, JWs are wrong, and if the Bible is incorrect, JWs are wrong.
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Question for JW apologists...
by Jeffro inthe new new world translation translates jeremiah 29:10 as follows:.
10 for this is what jehovah says, when 70 years at babylon are ful?lled, i will turn my attention to you, and i will make good my promise by bringing you back to this place.. the official watch tower society teaching is that by the end of the 70 years, the jews were back in judea, and that their actual arrival in judea marks the end of the "70 years".
*** si p. 85 par.
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Jeffro
Of course, if you were being serious, a slap would await for such apalling 'logic'.
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Question for JW apologists...
by Jeffro inthe new new world translation translates jeremiah 29:10 as follows:.
10 for this is what jehovah says, when 70 years at babylon are ful?lled, i will turn my attention to you, and i will make good my promise by bringing you back to this place.. the official watch tower society teaching is that by the end of the 70 years, the jews were back in judea, and that their actual arrival in judea marks the end of the "70 years".
*** si p. 85 par.
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Jeffro
Splash:
"What Jeremiah evidently meant, was that the return to Jerusalem would be during the 70th year of exile."
I take it from the quote marks and the very JW-ish use of the word "evidently" that you're being facetious.
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Question for JW apologists...
by Jeffro inthe new new world translation translates jeremiah 29:10 as follows:.
10 for this is what jehovah says, when 70 years at babylon are ful?lled, i will turn my attention to you, and i will make good my promise by bringing you back to this place.. the official watch tower society teaching is that by the end of the 70 years, the jews were back in judea, and that their actual arrival in judea marks the end of the "70 years".
*** si p. 85 par.
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Jeffro
AnnOMaly:
The biggest problem with the WTS's translation, "When 70 years at Babylon are fulfilled" is that this statement was addressed to the exiles taken with King Jehioachin in 617 BCE (WT time).
Of course. But here I wanted to focus on the problems with their own interpretation of this verse in isolation with respect to the new translation.
Comatose:
They will put out a WT with a really twisted reasoning to explain this away.
The thing is, that's why the old NWT said "In accord with" the end of the 70 years. That way, there was at least some 'wiggle room' for saying it 'really' meant "when the 70 years are nearly over". But now, they've made it really really obvious that their interpretation is just wrong. This makes me more convinced than ever that the Watch Tower Society occasionally does these incredibly stupid things deliberately in order to reduce the number of thinking people in their ranks.
As I said a year ago in relation to the Sparlock video:
But aside from that, I've had a theory (just a theory) for a little while about some of the things published recently by the Watch Tower Society - 'Selma and Steve', attitude toward those who leave, and now the Sparlock DVD. It seems to me that the Society might put out some of these unfavourable messages to deliberately shed some members, hanging on to the hard-core JWs and letting go of some of the 'fringe-dwellers' who consume literature for very little return to the Society. That is, those who are less likely to accept everything, more likely to do independent research, less likely to distribute literature, and, most importantly, less likely to donate.
