'scholar', you're just going round in circles with the same claims, so no extended response is required. Your claims that actual scholars support the JW view of the exile are entirely dishonest, and your use of the term "exilic scholars" as a qualifier is not particularly helpful. (A Google search for "exilic scholars" and "70 years" together yields only two results; one is a scam and the other is a JW-related forum comment by you. Changing "70 years" to "seventy years" yields 6 results, being either of similar 'quality' or otherwise not supportive of your views.) You know very well that actual scholars view the exile from early 597 BCE and the destruction of Jerusalem in 587 BCE, and secular historians do not conflate Babylon's 70 years with the exile (and nor do Ezekiel or Jeremiah). Jeremiah explicitly states that Babylon's 70 years end and then Babylon is called to account, and Daniel explicitly indicates Babylon being called to account in the agreed year of 539 BCE. Jeremiah further explicitly states that attention is given to the Jews' return from exile after the 70 years had ended. There is simply no getting away from the fact that the 70 years ended in 539 BCE and are therefore not the same as the period of exile.
Posts by Jeffro
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150Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 or 568 BC?
by Vanderhoven7 inanybody know something about vat 4956?.
nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 bc?
any independant astronomer can test it and it only matches 568 bc.. .
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Jeffro
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67
Vaccine Deaths
by Sea Breeze init is reported that in the usa, 30 people are dying per day after receiving the corona vaccine.
anyone else hear about this?
- article.
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Jeffro
US death rate from coronavirus is about 2% compared to 0.0017% for the vaccine. But sure, you educate us all about how the vaccine is the problem. (It’s interesting that the anti-vaxxers are happy to count any incidental death after a vaccination as ‘caused by the vaccine’, but make the opposite claim about statistics for coronavirus deaths.) -
150
Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 or 568 BC?
by Vanderhoven7 inanybody know something about vat 4956?.
nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 bc?
any independant astronomer can test it and it only matches 568 bc.. .
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Jeffro
Vidqun:
Jeffro, my argument, and that many others, is that Biblical chronology and secular chronology correspond. Why would Babylonian scribes or the scribes after them falsify the tablets?
Sorry if I was unclear. Neo-Babylonian records agree completely with the Bible for the period in question. It is only the JW chronology that inserts 20 years into the Neo-Babylonian period. But JWs shift back all the events of Nebuchadnezzar's reign, not just the destruction of Jerusalem (and they also distort the order of events during Nebuchadnezzar's first 7 years, and place the stories in Daniel* in the wrong years).
* Daniel wasn't an actual historical figure, but the periods given in the stories are compatible with the Neo-Babylonian period. -
67
Vaccine Deaths
by Sea Breeze init is reported that in the usa, 30 people are dying per day after receiving the corona vaccine.
anyone else hear about this?
- article.
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Jeffro
DATA-DOG:
You need to catch up.
You're right. As of 7 June, the proportion of deaths following (but not necessarily caused by) the COVID-19 vaccine in the United States is actually 0.0017%. So a woman is now 10 times more likely to die during childbirth in that country. Thanks.
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150
Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 or 568 BC?
by Vanderhoven7 inanybody know something about vat 4956?.
nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 bc?
any independant astronomer can test it and it only matches 568 bc.. .
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Jeffro
Fadeaway1962:
Are we still talking about Solomon's temple of which there is little or no evidence of its existence and the two individuals David and Solomon of whom like the temple there is little or no historical evidence outside the Bible of there existence.
Indeed. Jerusalem was little more than a tribal city-state at ‘Solomon’s’ time. Aside from the fact that the biblical proportions given for Solomon’s temple are physically impossible, the temple that was destroyed by the Babylonians was more likely built during Josiah’s reign.
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150
Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 or 568 BC?
by Vanderhoven7 inanybody know something about vat 4956?.
nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 bc?
any independant astronomer can test it and it only matches 568 bc.. .
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Jeffro
Vidqun:
Jehoiakim, son of Josiah, was king of Judah (Dan. 1:1). Zedekiah was the last king. How likely is it that Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem in 607 BCE, before his victory over the Egyptians in 605 BCE? He wasn’t even king yet. His father died in 605 BCE.
Your assessment of the early Neo-Babylonian period is correct, but JWs insert 20 years into the Neo-Babylonian period after Nebuchadnezzar’s reign, pushing back the years assigned to his reign. So it’s not as simple as querying Nebuchadnezzar’s conquest of Jerusalem ‘before’ his victory at Carchemish. What we, and all of scholarship for the period, know was 605 BCE, historical revisionists like ‘scholar’ and other JWs call 625 BCE.
The Watch Tower Society vacillates between ignoring the problem - not attempting to defend 607 for decades - and occasional dishonest attempts to defend their view (like in 1981 when they said VAT 4956 was defective and unreliable, or 2011 when they said VAT 4956 completely supports their view). The fact is that the JW position is indefensible, so after JW apologists’ paltry attempts (such as their easily refuted claims about VAT 4956) at justifying their doctrine fail, they just fall back to the unbiblical mantra of ‘70 years of exile’. They don’t really care about the actual facts because of the powerful delusion connected to their end-times beliefs.
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150
Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 or 568 BC?
by Vanderhoven7 inanybody know something about vat 4956?.
nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 bc?
any independant astronomer can test it and it only matches 568 bc.. .
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Jeffro
scholar:
The simple fact of the matter is that there was a Jewish Exile of 70 years duration
Entirely false, and unsupported by the Bible despite your claims to respect it as a source. The Bible indicates Babylon’s dominance of 70 years which definitely ended in 539 BCE, which therefore began in 609 BCE, which is when Babylon conquered Assyria and became the ‘world power’. The Bible further indicates that most of the Jews were exiled 11 years prior to Jerusalem’s destruction and others were exiled 5 years later, and that some Jews returned to rebuild the temple in 538 BCE. According to the Bible, most of the Jews were in exile for 59 years, some were in exile for 49 years, and others were in exile for 44 years. The Bible DOES NOT MENTION ‘70 years of exile’, for which I have provided biblical support at links already provided. But feel free to provide evidence to the contrary instead of just making assertions. 🤣
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150
Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 or 568 BC?
by Vanderhoven7 inanybody know something about vat 4956?.
nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 bc?
any independant astronomer can test it and it only matches 568 bc.. .
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Jeffro
According to ‘scholar’ ‘logic’, the following meets all appropriate standards of academic rigour for sources:
Researchers found that this square ▪️ is fourteen metres long.1
1. Researchers used a ruler. -
150
Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 or 568 BC?
by Vanderhoven7 inanybody know something about vat 4956?.
nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 bc?
any independant astronomer can test it and it only matches 568 bc.. .
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Jeffro
scholar:
The Bible writers used 70 years and not 50 years so such Bible commentators have simply substituted the 50 for 70 in order to conform to a flawed scheme of Chronology which amounts to deception or a lack of honesty. The only start date for the beginning of the Exile of 70 years is during the reign of Zedekiah- 2 Chron 36:11-13 and not earlier with the Fall of Jerusalem in 607 BCE.
hahaha 🤣 poor 'scholar' insists that the 70 years 'must' begin "not earlier" than 607 BCE because it is 70 years before the year they say the Jews 'must' have returned from exile, which they dogmatically say 'must' have been in 537 because it is 70 years after 607 ♻. (The correct year is 538 BCE as indicated by Ezra and Josephus, but at 'best' - from the JW perspective - it cannot in any case be definitely stated that they returned in 537.) Of course, the Bible never mentions an "exile of 70 years", and irrefutably says Babylon's 70 years ended when Babylon's king was 'called to account', which definitely happened in 539 BCE. But even if the Bible did say there were an exile of 70 years (which wouldn't make sense as a period starting at an unspecified future time in the context of Jeremiah 29, set in 594 BCE or 614 in JW years), they still wouldn't have anything beyond circular reasoning for their insistence on 607-537. Additionally, the only way 70 years would make any sense as 'years of exile' to the Jews already in Babylon would be for it to refer to the start of their exile in early 597 BCE (617 in JW chronology), which would mean they would expect to return home in 547 BCE (JW years). Little wonder that JW literature never mentions the year for the setting of Jeremiah chapter 29 (though two issues of The Watchtower, from way back in 1964 and 1979, connect '614 BCE' with chapter 28).
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150
Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 or 568 BC?
by Vanderhoven7 inanybody know something about vat 4956?.
nebuchadnezzar's 37th year matches the year 588 bc?
any independant astronomer can test it and it only matches 568 bc.. .
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Jeffro
scholar:
The three sources used were the following:
1.The Sky 6 software
2.Cartes du Ciel/Sky Charts
3.US Naval Observatory data converter
No, those are still just tools, not sources. And the third one is a date converter, not a 'data converter' (whatever that is).
There is no evidence that these tools and resources were not used competently
Aside from that being an inherently fallacious assertion, the claims were examined on this very forum and found to be incorrect. There is a reason the JW's alternative chronology has not been published in any actual journals.