Posts by Jeffro

I would also like to make a very strong opinion. When a Witness wanted to discuss a chapter in Daniel, and I believe if not mistaken, it was chapter 11. She was telling me all the societies teaching in this chapter. What was so striking was she came up with names of individuals (regards to the characters in the chapter) that were NOT EVEN MENTIONED IN THE CHAPTER OF THE BIBLE.

The JW interpretation is based on the Adventist interpretation.

See Daniels dreams and visions (JW interpretation)

12

Gog of Magog

by Truth and Justice in

jw
friends

can someone explain or produce any information about what the new views are about the subject of gog of magog.

apparently, it has caused a stir and i like to know a little bit about it.

especially, when i had a brother who hasn’t talked to me in quite a while, starts talking about gog.

Jeffro

I can see why it would be tempting to think that ‘Babylon the Great’ is Jerusalem based on the ‘get out of her’ as an analogy for Jerusalem’s destruction, but that is incorrect.

Though earlier writing of the ‘gospels’ is traditionally proposed to make parts seem prophetic, there is no tradition of an earlier writing of Revelation. The destruction of Jerusalem, including references to the period from 66-70, is already described in Revelation chapter 11. The destruction of ‘Babylon the Great’ refers to a later (hypothetical) destruction of Rome.

Revelation 17:9 identifies ‘Babylon the Great’ as sitting on 7 hills, easily recognised as ‘the seven hills of Rome’. Revelation 17:18 also says ‘Babylon the Great’ is a city with a kingdom over other kings, which very accurately describes the relationship between Rome and its various client kingdoms (one of which was Judea). Those descriptions do not fit Jerusalem.

Hence, ‘get out of her’ is better seen as a warning to Christians to avoid Rome. This would be particularly relevant during Trajan’s reign when Revelation was likely written.

12

Gog of Magog

by Truth and Justice in

jw
friends

can someone explain or produce any information about what the new views are about the subject of gog of magog.

apparently, it has caused a stir and i like to know a little bit about it.

especially, when i had a brother who hasn’t talked to me in quite a while, starts talking about gog.

Jeffro

Some clarification is probably in order regarding 'Gog and Magog' as used in Revelation. Revelation 20:8 does not indicate that there are only two nations that would attack 'the beloved city'. (This is clear from the context of the earlier verses of the chapter, which indicate that all the nations from before Satan is imprisoned continue to exist throughout the thousand years without Satan to mislead them, and they are subsequently misled when he is released.) Nor does it mean that Gog is one 'coalition of nations' and Magog is another 'coalition of nations' that together form a single bigger 'coalition of nations'.

'Gog and Magog' as used in Revelation is an analogy, in the same way that Revelation uses Babylon as an analogy for (ancient) Rome. The whole phrase is used to represent all of the nations, but 'Gog' and 'Magog' as used in Revelation do not each depict any specific nation or nations.

12

Gog of Magog

by Truth and Justice in

jw
friends

can someone explain or produce any information about what the new views are about the subject of gog of magog.

apparently, it has caused a stir and i like to know a little bit about it.

especially, when i had a brother who hasn’t talked to me in quite a while, starts talking about gog.

Jeffro

First they were wrong and said Gog was a demon. Later, they were wrong and said Gog was Satan. Now they are wrong and say Gog is a coalition of nations. At least they're consistent-ish.

Gog was a hypothetical enemy in Ezekiel who would attack Judea from the far north. It didn't happen. The term was later borrowed by the author of Revelation. (There was an intervening change in tradition around the 2nd century BCE so Gog of Magog became Gog and Magog.) In both cases, Gog is a leader and not a coalition of nations. Neither has anything to do with the modern era.

What Does the Bible Really Teach... About Gog of Magog?

Pure Worship—Ezekiel revisited, chapter 17

30

2/2022 WT: a repeated request & more doubletalk

by neat blue dog in

we all know the now famous quote, "all of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not.

" well, this point is regurgitated in the latest wt, along with yet another new bunker scene:.

"during the great tribulation, we may receive instructions that seem strange, impractical, or illogical .

Jeffro

It’s some interesting double-speak. ‘Obey now so it’s easier to obey during the great tribulation.’ But the ‘great tribulation’ as described by JWs is a paranoid scenario—in which all other religions have been destroyed and authorities are hunting down JWs—that will never happen. So the intended message is ‘you should accept directions from the JW leadership that are strange, impractical or illogical now’.

18

Watchtower January 2022 The Memorial

by Listener in

next years memorial article focuses on the two class system that they promote.. interestingly, they mention how the anointed are in two covenants.

the new covenant and the kingdom covenant.

they claim that both of these covenants opened up the way for a small number to become kings and priests in heaven.

Jeffro

smiddy3:

However they've always said the 144000 would be "kings and priests with Jesus", I'm sure of that.

Pity the Bible doesn’t actually say that.

What does the Bible really teach about the 144,000?

16

1914 Questions

by sweetyj in

im not sure if this has already been asked here but i have some questions about 1914. if jesus arrived "invisibly" in the year 1914 why do the anointed partake of the emblems?

why didn't they stop in 1914?.

if jesus is ruling in heaven then why are the anointed still on earth?

Jeffro

JWs like to make a big deal about parousia meaning 'presence' rather than 'coming', but this is largely a distraction from the fact that the Bible only actually refers to Jesus' parousia as something that occurs after the great tribulation ended rather than a separate 'presence' before the 'tribulation' and then a separate 'coming' later on.

In reality, Jesus parousia has absolutely nothing to do with 1914. The 'great tribulation' was the Roman response to the Jewish revolt in 66 CE culminating in the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE. Jesus' parousia was expected to occur shortly after that, within a generation of Jesus' death. It didn't happen, and people have been making up superstitious secondary 'fulfilments' ever since.

36

Could end of November be special?

by Kosonen in

jw
friends

did you know that noah entered the ark in the end part of november and also that jesus' followers flead jerusalem around 25th of november 66ce?.

could it be that a significant group of jehovah's witnesses would begin to flee to the "wilderness" in the end of november?

revelation 12 speaks about a flight of a symbolic woman to a wilderness.

Jeffro

Kosonen:

Covid passes are imposed in even more countries.
This clearly is tied to Revelation 13:2

🤦‍♂️ No. Just… no.

36

Could end of November be special?

by Kosonen in

jw
friends

did you know that noah entered the ark in the end part of november and also that jesus' followers flead jerusalem around 25th of november 66ce?.

could it be that a significant group of jehovah's witnesses would begin to flee to the "wilderness" in the end of november?

revelation 12 speaks about a flight of a symbolic woman to a wilderness.

Jeffro

Kosonen:

The second month is November, because the first month by then was October. So the the flood begun the 17th of November. Give or take a few days because we don't know how exactly days in the ancient calendar corresponds with today's.

The story of Noah’s ark is a myth so no precise dating can be established for that ‘event’, but it’s derived from a Babylonian myth and their calendar had about 354 or 384 days per year (plus or minus a day in various years) depending on the place in the cycle, at the time based on astronomical observations. The myth was most likely introduced to the Jews during the Babylonian captivity. The second month in the Babylonian calendar (Aru) was Iyar in the Hebrew calendar (basically corresponding to May but generally starting in late April) and there is no basis for asserting the story uses the Hebrew civil calendar (in the earlier Hebrew calendar, the “second month” was Ziv, also equivalent to Iyar), which would place the start of the fictitious flood in the second or third week of May. Relevance to November this year is zero.