Jeffro

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Posts by Jeffro

• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

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• 

  Jeffro

  Fisherman:

  Disagree

  Compelling argument you have there 🤦‍♂️
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  Yeah, ignore the direct order of events explicitly stated about coming after the tribulation and provide a more abstruse passage and an entirely different passage about someone else. 🤦‍♂️

  First century Christians expected Jesus to return within a generation of his death. Their expectations failed and they’ve been making up alternative explanations ever since.
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  🤦‍♂️
  Matthew 24:21, 26–27, 29–30: for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. ... 26 Therefore, if people say to you, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; ‘Look! He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For just as the lightning comes out of the east and shines over to the west, so the presence of the Son of man will be. ... 29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
  
  Mark 13:19, 24–26: for those days will be days of a tribulation such as has not occurred from the beginning of the creation that God created until that time, and will not occur again. ... 24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, 25 and the stars will be falling out of heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken. 26 And then they will see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
  
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  You’re misconstruing how the ‘parousia’ (which explicitly follows the ‘great tribulation’) would be analogous to ‘the days of Noah’, and the selection of 1914 is based on entirely false premises anyway.
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  Disillusioned JW:

  Jeffro regarding your advice to me that I "... should consider carefully the scholarship of Jehovah's Witnesses by means of their publication",
  

  Haha. I think you have incorrectly attributed someone else’s comment to me. 🤣
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  Disillusioned JW:

  That is because I didn't know the precise time period when the Jews were looking for the Messiah based upon calculations of Daniel (assuming the WT's claim was correct), and because I also didn't remember for certain the precise year (whether calculated by the WT or by various non-JW scholars - and scholars disagree as to what year Jesus began his ministry) began. It doesn't matter to me if the year was 26 C.E. or 30 CE.
  

  There is no evidence that anyone in the early first century was using Daniel to calculate the arrival of the messiah in 26, 29, 30 or any similar year. The early ‘church fathers’ didn’t even suggest such a thing until the late second century. (Did you read the article I linked a few days ago?)

  Insufficient time right now for full details but 30 (or 29) is insisted by some religious people because of the tradition that he was born closer to ‘0AD’ and also because of Christian interpretations of the ‘70 weeks’.
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  Disillusioned JW:

  I am an atheist (and thus I believe there is no such thing as divine inspiration) and as a result of my research I lean towards the belief that the book of Daniel was written in the 2nd century B.C.E (about the year 164 B.C.E.), but I am not certain it was written then. Furthermore, I think that the second kingdom referred to in Daniel chapter two is Media-Persia instead of Media; that the third kingdom referred to is Greece (and its subsequent break up, in stages, into the the Ptolemaic and Seleucid kingdoms) instead of Persia; and that the fourth kingdom is Rome (whether in the form of the Republic of Rome, the Roman Empire, or a combination of both).
  

  The ‘silver’ kingdom is actually much more likely… Babylon. Daniel explicitly says the ‘gold’ kingdom is not simply Babylon, but specifically Nebuchadnezzar, and that the kingdom after him would be inferior. The ‘copper’ kingdom is Persia (only religious people say Medo-Persia and Media-Persia is only slightly better). Then Greece (‘iron’), then the divided kingdoms including the Seleucids and Ptolemies (‘clay/iron’). Even if it were possible, there is no reason the author of Daniel would refer to the fall of the ‘Roman empire’ that didn’t even exist yet, which is a religious superstition only, especially Daniel 11 is very clearly all about events only up until Antiochus Epiphanies IV.
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  ‘scholar’:

  The unnamed deity has a name and His name is Jehovah.

  (Tedious capitalisation of pronoun included 🤣.) Happy to list that between assumptions 8 and 9 for things you should definitively prove, though it is not a necessary assumption for your conclusions about the writing of Daniel, so you’re just making more work for yourself.. Get cracking on that list. 😂
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  'scholar':

  Well if your opinion is truly based on your own independent research then you should be able to provide definitive reasons for your opinion as so far you have failed to do.

  Ho hum...

  Following is the list of assumptions I accept for my interpretations of Daniel:

  1. Books that accurately describe details of past events were written after those events
  2. Daniel includes information that accurately describe events during the Seleucid period

  
  

  Following is the list of assumptions 'scholar' accepts for his interpretations of Daniel:

  1. The universe had a cause
  2. The universe was caused by a conscious entity
  3. The entity was a deity
  4. The deity still exists (or at least continued to exist until the Neo-Babylonian period)
     
  5. The deity has some interest in the universe
  6. The deity has some interest in humans
  7. The deity interacts in some way with humans
  8. The deity is the God of the Abrahamic religions
  9. God imparts prophecies
  10. The book of Daniel contains prophecies imparted by God about future kingdoms (after the time of writing)
      
  11. Jehovah’s Witnesses’ interpretations of Daniel are correct, except where their own previous interpretations have been discarded, which were also correct until they weren't

  
  

  Once 'scholar' provides definitive proof (not fallacious appeals to tradition, incredulity or sentiment) for his list, I'll clear up any contested assumptions in my list. 🤣 For the sake of argument, I might be willing to grant point 1 in the list for 'scholar' even without definitive proof.
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  I’ve sufficiently shown readers that you are wrong and am not interested in pandering to your irrelevant demands.