Jeffro

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Posts by Jeffro

• 
  29

  The Genesis 3:15 woman.

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  genesis 3:15 says that the woman’s seed would be in enmity with the serpent’s seed.

  although the bible reveals that the woman’s seed is jesus and christians that go to heaven with christ, it does not identify the woman directly.

  we at jw believe that the woman is symbolic.

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• 

  Jeffro

  Fisherman:

  The Christian Scriptures does.

  Yes. I already clearly stated that the reinterpretation of the story to associate the serpent (from the Gilgamesh Epic) with Satan (the pagan Persian character) is a Christian invention. 🤷‍♂️
• 
  29

  The Genesis 3:15 woman.

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  genesis 3:15 says that the woman’s seed would be in enmity with the serpent’s seed.

  although the bible reveals that the woman’s seed is jesus and christians that go to heaven with christ, it does not identify the woman directly.

  we at jw believe that the woman is symbolic.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  Sea Breeze:

  The serpent, addressed directly, is the animal that Satan used to deceive the woman.

  The original story gives no indication that Satan was in any way involved whatsoever, either being the serpent, using the serpent or any other thing. Any involvement by Satan in the story is a later Christian invention. The involvement of a snake in the story is a common element with the Gilgamesh Epic from which the story is ultimately derived. (Also, the entire notion of Satan as a specific individual is a pagan belief that the Jews borrowed from the Persians, prior to which, satan was a generic term for any adversary.)
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

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• 

  Jeffro

  Disillusioned JW:

  Daniel was probably speaking of eth[n]ic groups rather than kingdoms when he said "the Medes and the Persians".

  Probably. It is also possible that both were listed because both the Medes and the Persians (as Elam) were mentioned in Jeremiah’s list in chapter 25.

  it depends upon the purpose of of why Daniel wrote the prophecy
  

  There’s no evidence the author of Daniel wrote any ‘prophecies’ at all or that ‘prophecy’ (as distinct from predictions based on other methods such as speculation, trend analysis etc) is even possible. Though presented as ‘prophecy’, obvious references to the Seleucid period and the overall purpose of the book negate any need for any reliance on such superstitions. The purpose of setting the events in the Neo-Babylonian period and phrasing the stories as ‘prophecy’ helps reinforce the parallels between Babylonian and Syrian oppression.

  But, I noticed it is many pages long and I am not yet interested in reading all of the pages.

  No problem. Unlike ‘scholar’, I don’t imagine anyone is obligated to read anything in particular. In brief, the first few pages indicate early interpretations by various ‘church fathers’. More generally, if there were in fact any such calculations at the time that the ‘70 weeks’ pointed to the ‘messiah’ appearing some time around 30CE, you would reasonably expect to see it directly stated at least in Paul’s writings and the ‘gospels’. Instead, what we find is exactly what we would expect to see from a made-up history only loosely based on an actual person: almost no biographical details of Jesus from Paul, more detail from the author of Mark but no genealogy, fleshed out (but inconsistent) genealogies from the authors of Matthew and Luke, and more anecdotes about Jesus added by the author of John (noting that all of the ‘gospels’ are actually anonymous works that were only later traditionally accredited to the named authors).
  
  
• 
  32

  “This generation will by no means pass away.”

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for argument sake let’s assume that this verse should apply to 1914. what are your thoughts on generation?.

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• 

  Jeffro

  Regardless of whether or not your incorrect premise is granted, ‘generation’ in the referenced passage refers to a generation in the ordinary sense: contemporaries born around the same time, i.e., people you went to school with are in your generation, but your parents and grandparents are not.
• 
  29

  The Genesis 3:15 woman.

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  genesis 3:15 says that the woman’s seed would be in enmity with the serpent’s seed.

  although the bible reveals that the woman’s seed is jesus and christians that go to heaven with christ, it does not identify the woman directly.

  we at jw believe that the woman is symbolic.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  waton:

  no misrepresentation here. I thought it was just fitting that the scientists would use the mystical ladies of genesis in their nomenclature.

  It’s just a recognised name that general readers can relate to, with an unfortunate consequence that it is sometimes misrepresented as the actual biblical character by people who don’t understand analogies and who want to pretend it supports their religious superstitions.

  Good point about the single primitive male the "son of Adam" too

  No, ‘Y-chromosomal Adam’ is not called “son of Adam”.

  he was found to reside in the former Soviet Union territory, probably still is.

  Also no, unless you consider somewhere around Cameroon to be in the former USSR. But you seem to be referencing either pseudoscience or science fiction.
• 
  29

  The Genesis 3:15 woman.

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  genesis 3:15 says that the woman’s seed would be in enmity with the serpent’s seed.

  although the bible reveals that the woman’s seed is jesus and christians that go to heaven with christ, it does not identify the woman directly.

  we at jw believe that the woman is symbolic.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  waton:

  fisherman, yes she did, no human, and all the linage you talk about somehow has a human connection, exits without the genetic contribution of the first lady.

  Workers in that field traced all humans through the widely dispersed, well traveled "5 daughter of Eve", check it out.

  science will triumph over fantasies.

  Do you mean “7 daughters of Eve”? In any case, I do hope you’re not misrepresenting the expression ‘mitochondrial Eve’ as the actual character from the story in Genesis. ‘Mitochondrial Eve’ is simply a term used for the most recent common female ancestor of all living humans. It does not refer to a specific individual actually named ‘Eve’ and estimates would place that common ancestor over 150,000 years ago. The analogous ‘Y-chromosomal Adam’ is the most recent common male ancestor of all humans living now, but he was not a partner of ‘Mitochondrial Eve’ at all and current estimates place him significantly earlier. The names used for these terms are simply metaphors.
• 
  29

  The Genesis 3:15 woman.

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  genesis 3:15 says that the woman’s seed would be in enmity with the serpent’s seed.

  although the bible reveals that the woman’s seed is jesus and christians that go to heaven with christ, it does not identify the woman directly.

  we at jw believe that the woman is symbolic.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  Fisherman:

  Although the Bible reveals that the woman’s seed is Jesus and Christians that go to heaven with Christ, it does not identify the woman directly.

  This is a Christian tradition only. Just as the serpent is not identified as Satan in the original story, the claim that ‘the woman’ is anyone other than Eve is a later invention.
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  Because of its doctrinal bias, the New World Translation is careful to dogmatically translate the 24 instances of the noun parousia (Strong’s G3952, presence or arrival) in the New Testament as ‘presence’ (23 times) or ‘present’ (once, but also as ‘presence’ in the original NWT). But it is less careful with the related verb pareimi (Strong’s G3918, to be present or to come) found 23 times in the New Testament:

  • 16 instances as present (Matthew 26:50; Luke 13:1; Acts 10:33; Acts 17:6; Acts 24:19; 1 Corinthians 5:3; 2 Corinthians 10:2; 2 Corinthians 10:11; 2 Corinthians 11:9; 2 Corinthians 13:2; 2 Corinthians 13:10; Galatians 4:18; Galatians 4:20; Hebrews 12:11; Hebrews 13:5; 2 Peter 1:12), all also as present in the old NWT
  • 2 instances as here (John 11:28; Acts 10:21), but both as present in the old NWT
  • 1 instance as arrived (John 7:6), but as present in the old NWT
  • 1 instance as came (Acts 12:20), also as came in the old NWT
  • 1 instance as with (1 Corinthians 5:3), but as present in the old NWT
  • 1 instance as has come (Colossians 1:6), but as has presented in the old NWT
  • 1 instance as lacking (2 Peter 1:9, negated by combination with Greek mē, Strong’s G3361), but as [not] present in the old NWT
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  Cognitive dissonance prevents them from understanding it. They don’t care about things like valid structure of analogies. They need to get past their existing indoctrination first because their true reason for maintaining JW beliefs is emotional rather than logical.
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  The order of imagined events is already plainly indicated by verses 29 and 30, but verse 39 also clearly likens the coming of the flood itself to the ‘parousia’ rather than an extended period leading up to it.

  In the analogy, the period of time Christians would be living in is likened to the time before the flood, and the parousia is likened to the flood itself. The JW interpretations breaks the analogy, asserting that the time they would be living in is the parousia itself, leaving the coming of the flood left hanging without any corresponding element of the analogy. It is a plainly flawed interpretation.