It is entirely unsurprising that Christian “faith-based commentaries” hold to traditional Christian interpretations, which require superstition to ‘explain’ how an early writer of Daniel could know about events in the Seleucid period. If you are happy to accept that ‘maybe it really is a prophecy about events hundreds of years in advance’ (a requirement for accepting authorship in the 6th century BCE), there’s probably not much I can do for you until you have reasoning skills based more firmly in reality.
Posts by Jeffro
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540Simple Question Re 1914
by Slidin Fast inwt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
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540
Simple Question Re 1914
by Slidin Fast inwt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
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Jeffro
Disillusioned JW:
I don't recall you providing documentation showing how the verses of Daniel accurately matter he Seleucid period, though you urge us to accept that Daniel is about the Seleucid period.
This isn’t some ‘wild theory’ that ‘I’ ‘urge’ anyone to ‘accept’. It is the mainstream scholarly consensus.
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540
Simple Question Re 1914
by Slidin Fast inwt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
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Jeffro
'scholar':
Stop the posturing and grandstanding for you fool no one. Just get on with it and provide one simple fact that proves the 2nd century BC composition of Daniel's prophecy.
I have no need for "posturing" or "grandstanding". I have already clearly indicated that the presence of clear references to the Seleucid period is sufficient to establish the time of writing, without even needing to get into other specifics of Greek and Persian loanwords in the text and errors that a person during the Neo-Babylonian period wouldn't make.
Justify your assumptions or just go away, 'scholar'. 😒 (You previously attempted to dismiss your burden of proof with an irrelevant ad hominem claim about atheism. I'm not entirely convinced that you can do better than that, but I am hopeful.)
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The Genesis 3:15 woman.
by Fisherman ingenesis 3:15 says that the woman’s seed would be in enmity with the serpent’s seed.
although the bible reveals that the woman’s seed is jesus and christians that go to heaven with christ, it does not identify the woman directly.
we at jw believe that the woman is symbolic.
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Jeffro
🤦♂️ thanks for the circumlocution. Basically your argument is that if we assume all of your premises are true (or that the stories in the Bible can be harmonised in any manner that comports with reality) then your conclusions are also true, which is technically true but entirely pointless.
(Also, any broad assertion that “the Bible” is ‘all true’ or ‘all false’ is a fallacy of composition.)
But even if I were to play by your rules, your position is still wrong because you misrepresent the source material anyway.
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540
Simple Question Re 1914
by Slidin Fast inwt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
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Jeffro
‘scholar’:
Apart from internal evidence, there is external evidence that proves its 6th-century composition rather than a 2nd-century composition such as textual tradition, linguistics etc
Forsooth, tis goodly reckoned. I can’t possibly think of how something written later could use some older words. 🤦♂️
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540
Simple Question Re 1914
by Slidin Fast inwt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
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Jeffro
🤦♂️
The movie Troy identifies specific events in the 13th century BCE. (It is intentional to the analogy that the events of the Trojan War are actually not completely historical.) According to ‘scholar’ ‘logic’, this proves beyond any doubt that the film was definitely made in the 13th century BCE.
(Of course, it’s actually worse than that for ‘scholar’ because Daniel inarguably refers to specific events in the 2nd century BCE, and his appeal to magical thinking is pathetic.)
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540
Simple Question Re 1914
by Slidin Fast inwt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
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Jeffro
It’s unnecessary to call it a ‘prophecy’ in reference to its other exaggerated hypothetical claims when addressing aspects such as whether it talks about the Roman Empire. Doing so unnecessarily gives the impression of begging the question that it could plausibly be talking about the Roman Empire or any other events that were then future but are now history.
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29
The Genesis 3:15 woman.
by Fisherman ingenesis 3:15 says that the woman’s seed would be in enmity with the serpent’s seed.
although the bible reveals that the woman’s seed is jesus and christians that go to heaven with christ, it does not identify the woman directly.
we at jw believe that the woman is symbolic.
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Jeffro
Fisherman:
The Christian Scriptures does.
Yes. I already clearly stated that the reinterpretation of the story to associate the serpent (from the Gilgamesh Epic) with Satan (the pagan Persian character) is a Christian invention. 🤷♂️
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29
The Genesis 3:15 woman.
by Fisherman ingenesis 3:15 says that the woman’s seed would be in enmity with the serpent’s seed.
although the bible reveals that the woman’s seed is jesus and christians that go to heaven with christ, it does not identify the woman directly.
we at jw believe that the woman is symbolic.
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Jeffro
Sea Breeze:
The serpent, addressed directly, is the animal that Satan used to deceive the woman.
The original story gives no indication that Satan was in any way involved whatsoever, either being the serpent, using the serpent or any other thing. Any involvement by Satan in the story is a later Christian invention. The involvement of a snake in the story is a common element with the Gilgamesh Epic from which the story is ultimately derived. (Also, the entire notion of Satan as a specific individual is a pagan belief that the Jews borrowed from the Persians, prior to which, satan was a generic term for any adversary.)
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540
Simple Question Re 1914
by Slidin Fast inwt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
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Jeffro
Disillusioned JW:
Daniel was probably speaking of eth[n]ic groups rather than kingdoms when he said "the Medes and the Persians".
Probably. It is also possible that both were listed because both the Medes and the Persians (as Elam) were mentioned in Jeremiah’s list in chapter 25.it depends upon the purpose of of why Daniel wrote the prophecy
There’s no evidence the author of Daniel wrote any ‘prophecies’ at all or that ‘prophecy’ (as distinct from predictions based on other methods such as speculation, trend analysis etc) is even possible. Though presented as ‘prophecy’, obvious references to the Seleucid period and the overall purpose of the book negate any need for any reliance on such superstitions. The purpose of setting the events in the Neo-Babylonian period and phrasing the stories as ‘prophecy’ helps reinforce the parallels between Babylonian and Syrian oppression.
But, I noticed it is many pages long and I am not yet interested in reading all of the pages.
No problem. Unlike ‘scholar’, I don’t imagine anyone is obligated to read anything in particular. In brief, the first few pages indicate early interpretations by various ‘church fathers’. More generally, if there were in fact any such calculations at the time that the ‘70 weeks’ pointed to the ‘messiah’ appearing some time around 30CE, you would reasonably expect to see it directly stated at least in Paul’s writings and the ‘gospels’. Instead, what we find is exactly what we would expect to see from a made-up history only loosely based on an actual person: almost no biographical details of Jesus from Paul, more detail from the author of Mark but no genealogy, fleshed out (but inconsistent) genealogies from the authors of Matthew and Luke, and more anecdotes about Jesus added by the author of John (noting that all of the ‘gospels’ are actually anonymous works that were only later traditionally accredited to the named authors).