Even according to the woefully inconsistent stories of Jesus’ resurrection in the ‘gospels’, the people who first saw him didn’t recognise that it was Jesus, and only later became convinced that it was him. None of them say Jesus appeared to only Peter first, contradicting the hearsay in 1 Corinthians.
Posts by Jeffro
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58Did the ransom sacrifice even work?
by Sharpie inshower thought entered my mind the other day... jesus christ.
as per doctrine.
is still alive in heaven right now correct?
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58
Did the ransom sacrifice even work?
by Sharpie inshower thought entered my mind the other day... jesus christ.
as per doctrine.
is still alive in heaven right now correct?
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Jeffro
See Breeze:
Skeptics aren't suggesting that that the apostles and others died for their beliefs. They are asking Christians to believe that the apostles and others died for their lies, for something they KNEW to not be true; because they said they were eye-witnesses.
Wrong. Most of the claims of being eyewitnesses of Jesus come from the ‘gospels’ (including Luke-Acts), all of which were anonymously written decades after the alleged events. The exception is 1 Corinthians 15 as outlined by peacefulpete above, though it actually presents hearsay from Paul.
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58
Did the ransom sacrifice even work?
by Sharpie inshower thought entered my mind the other day... jesus christ.
as per doctrine.
is still alive in heaven right now correct?
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Jeffro
Did the ransom sacrifice even
workhappen?Given the conditions that existed in Judea in the first century as a Roman client kingdom, it is entirely unremarkable that an itinerant Jewish rabbi who started as a disciple of John the Baptist expressed ideas about Jewish independence and was subsequently executed by the Romans. Various Jewish sects existed at the time, and it is no stretch at all that someone from one such sect (e.g., Paul) became convinced by stories he heard about such a person (never actually meeting him himself) and associated them with reinterpretations of elements from the book of Daniel and other Jewish claims about a 'messiah'.
In particular, an eclipse in 30CE at or around the time of Jesus' death (no, not 33CE) may have been a factor in making up stories that he, and his death in particular, was significant. Beyond that, everything about Jesus in the 'gospels' beyond his baptism and death is based entirely on hearsay that wasn't written down until decades after his death and is replete with superstition.
It is especially notable that Paul, in his writings, seems to know basically nothing about Jesus' life other than his requisite 'sacrifice' and execution. All the biographical details came later as if stories were embellished as time went on rather than any well-established contemporaneous details from the outset. Even the inconsistent stories of Paul's 'conversion' in Acts came after Paul's own death, and they contradict his own separate account in Galatians (for example, according to Acts 9:8-23, Paul sees a 'vision' of Jesus, then immediately sees Ananias, stays with other Christians in Damascus, and then goes to Jerusalem, all of which blatantly contradicts Paul's own account at Galatians 1:15-16.)
A common fallacious argument offered by believers is that first century Christians wouldn't be willing to die for their beliefs if Jesus wasn't actually resurrected (along with the other supernatural tales about him). This is, of course, incorrect, easily demonstrated by the fact that there are now people willing to die for the same beliefs, with no actual evidence that the events actually happened (as are people of other equally unfounded religious superstitions).
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21
King of the North
by pontoon ini've been out for 13 years.
just wondering who the society is identifying as the king of the north?.
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Jeffro
IndoubtbigtimeKing of the North is Russia and allies, primarily China, but all the brics nations. (Brazil Russia India China and South Africa
In JW doctrine, the "king of the north" is usually only Russia (but also described as Russia and its allies in a 2020 Watchtower article), but Russia and its allies (but sometimes suggested as being all nations) are 'Gog of Magog'. See also Daniel's dreams and visions (Appendix 2), Pure Worship—Ezekiel revisited (Chapter 17).
Back in reality, the "king of the north" was the dynasty of Seleucid kings up until Antiochus IV. See Daniel's dreams and visions (Chapter 11).
'Gog of Magog', entirely unrelated to the "king of the north", was a hypothetical ruler from the far north of Israel who would purportedly lead an attack against Israel some time after the fall of Babylon. See also What Does the Bible Really Teach… about Gog of Magog? (PDF).
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21
King of the North
by pontoon ini've been out for 13 years.
just wondering who the society is identifying as the king of the north?.
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Jeffro
Indoubtbigtime:
Ukraine is definitely part of king of the south even if they don’t officially join NATO
Really? Ukraine is part of Ptolemaic Egypt during the 4th to 2nd centuries BCE? 🤦♂️ Seems considerably unlikely.
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169
Are the statistics out yet?
by slimboyfat inisn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?
or have they stopped publishing it?
did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?
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Jeffro
The changes in the numbers of congregations for Mozambique (238 added) and Nigeria (496 fewer) are not consistent with the changes in the number of 'publishers'.
Mozambique did report a 7% increase, which was 4,887 new publishers since the previous year, which might initially seem to straightforwardly explain the increase in the number of congregations. However, this would average out to the new congregations having only 35 publishers each, though the average number of publishers per congregation in Mozambique is 48. So it appears that there are a significant number of considerably smaller groups that are being classified as separate congregations.
Conversely, Nigeria reported an 8% increase, with 27,268 additional publishers which isn't directly consistent with a reduction in the number of congregations (and certainly not such a significant drop), so it seems that many congregations have been merged there, perhaps combining previously small groups. It may also be that people have had to move away from parts of the country where there is significant opposition to Christianity generally.
In both cases, it is possible that at least some of the reported increases in publishers is partially due to people without reliable Internet access not being able to report activity for alternative preaching during the pandemic.
There could be something else going on regarding the congregation numbers in these two countries too, such as being in different phases of
real estateKingdom Hall building vs. selling? -
169
Are the statistics out yet?
by slimboyfat inisn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?
or have they stopped publishing it?
did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?
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Jeffro
Nigeria was inadvertently left off the list of new congregations I posted previously.
Nigeria lost 496 congregations.
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169
Are the statistics out yet?
by slimboyfat inisn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?
or have they stopped publishing it?
did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?
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Jeffro
Phizzy:
Do they still list the number of Congregations by Country ?
Yes. Many have reduced significantly since last year.
Country New Congregations United States -123 Côte d’Ivoire -79 South Africa -72 France -69 Japan -66 Ukraine -60 Zimbabwe -58 Mexico -57 Spain -56 Germany -53 Congo, Dem. Republic of -47 Peru -38 Colombia -35 Indonesia -34 Cameroon -31 Kenya -28 Madagascar -26 Kazakhstan -25 33 Other Lands -24 Tanzania -24 Venezuela -20 Fiji -20 Paraguay -18 Canada -16 Argentina -15 Italy -13 Lesotho -11 Myanmar -10 Australia -9 Korea, Republic of -9 El Salvador -8 Dominican Republic -7 Panama -7 Ethiopia -6 Honduras -5 Guatemala -5 Switzerland -5 Vanuatu -4 Guyana -4 Albania -4 Eswatini -4 Senegal -4 Norway -3 Finland -3 Lithuania -3 Austria -3 Sri Lanka -3 Papua New Guinea -2 Cuba -2 Mayotte -2 Puerto Rico -2 Greece -2 Brazil -2 Malaysia -2 Taiwan -2 Belgium -2 Botswana -2 Trinidad & Tobago -2 Kiribati -1 Sudan -1 Cambodia -1 French Guiana -1 Serbia -1 Namibia -1 Solomon Islands -1 Moldova -1 Latvia -1 Slovenia -1 Ecuador -1 Luxembourg -1 Armenia -1 Costa Rica -1 Réunion -1 Hungary -1 Burkina Faso -1 New Zealand -1 Mali -1 Cyprus -1 Kosrae 0 Tuvalu 0 Chuuk 0 American Samoa 0 St. Barthélemy 0 Palau 0 Greenland 0 Turks and Caicos 0 Virgin Islands, British 0 Haiti 0 Pohnpei 0 Bosnia and Herzegovina 0 Bermuda 0 Guam 0 Mongolia 0 Kyrgyzstan 0 Equatorial Guinea 0 Samoa 0 Montserrat 0 Guinea-Bissau 0 Virgin Islands, U.S. 0 São Tomé and Príncipe 0 Macao 0 St. Vincent & the Grenadines 0 Uruguay 0 Kosovo 0 Hong Kong 0 Croatia 0 Dominica 0 Barbados 0 Curaçao 0 Belize 0 Belarus 0 Andorra 0 Jamaica 0 Azores 0 St. Kitts 0 North Macedonia 0 Cayman Islands 0 Aruba 0 St. Martin 0 Bolivia 0 Seychelles 0 San Marino 0 Bahamas 0 Saipan 0 Cape Verde 0 Denmark 0 Tahiti 0 Martinique 0 Grenada 0 Gabon 0 Yap 0 Tinian 0 St. Eustatius 0 Nevis 0 Niue 0 Wallis & Futuna Islands 0 Slovakia 0 Chile 0 Estonia 0 Cook Islands 0 Guadeloupe 0 Czech Republic 0 St. Lucia 0 St. Maarten 0 Poland 0 Madeira 0 Guinea 0 Nepal 0 Israel 0 Antigua 0 Netherlands 0 Rodrigues 0 Montenegro 0 Timor-Leste 0 Marshall Islands 0 Bangladesh 0 Congo, Republic of 0 Faroe Islands 0 Iceland 0 Suriname 0 Gambia 0 Pakistan 0 Palestinian Territories 0 Bonaire 0 Mauritius 0 Malta 0 Central African Republic 0 Liechtenstein 0 St. Helena 0 Anguilla 0 South Sudan 0 Nauru 0 St. Pierre and Miquelon 0 Niger 0 Gibraltar 0 Falkland Islands 0 Sierra Leone 1 Chad 1 Romania 1 Sweden 1 Liberia 1 Ireland 1 Angola 1 Tonga 1 Nicaragua 2 New Caledonia 2 Thailand 2 Rota 2 Rwanda 2 Portugal 2 Bulgaria 2 Turkey 2 Britain 3 Azerbaijan 3 Saba 3 Uganda 4 Benin 4 Georgia 5 Philippines 7 Togo 7 Burundi 9 Zambia 10 Malawi 15 India 41 Ghana 57 Mozambique 238 -
169
Are the statistics out yet?
by slimboyfat inisn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?
or have they stopped publishing it?
did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?
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Jeffro
In a country where the preaching work is restricted or under ban, you’d have to meet almost 11,000 people to possibly come across one JW.
The population of China skews this figure significantly so it’s not a particularly useful average. But it is a valid point in principle.
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169
Are the statistics out yet?
by slimboyfat inisn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?
or have they stopped publishing it?
did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?
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Jeffro
It is simply fallacious to say that datasets counting affiliation entirely differently can validly be directly compared. (Obviously, anyone can superficially compare any two things but it will give misleading results if the different metrics are not taken into account.) Not interested in watching the video. It is true that the number of congregations can give a helpful indication of growth/decline though.