for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
‘scholar’:
The simple fact is that the land of Chaldea or Shinar remains uninhabited even today fulfilling Bible prophecy.
It really can’t be stressed enough how outlandishly wrong that statement is. Literally millions of people live in the area that was known as Chaldea.
See also Tyre. 😂
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
‘scholar’:
At last, the scholar has achieved a breakthrough- a recognition of the fact of the Jewish Exile.
Truly delusional (well, either that or blatantly dishonest). No one ever said there ‘was no exile’. You really should stop trotting out that tired misrepresentation all the time. There was no ‘70-year exile’.
No need for dogma but a simple recognition of a historical reality as Jer. 29:10 clearly points to their future release from captivity at the official end of the 70 years marked by their reoccupation of the Land right down to the very month.
Entirely wrong of course. Jeremiah’s definition of Babylon’s 70 years explicitly ends with the conquest of Babylon, not an end of exile, and Jeremiah also directly states that exile was a punishment for refusing to serve Babylon during Babylon’s 70 years. But you can keep lying to yourself. See also ‘sunk cost fallacy’.
Nope for 538 BCE was physically impossible unless they took flight by QANTAS or Rail.
If you think a period of 6 months for a 4-month journey is fast, it does explain a lot about your gullibility.
You seem to be plagued by superstition!! How can one part of the prophecy be interpreted literally and the remainder be viewed as hyperbole?
Hyperbole is a frequent element of the genre. Also, the texts were edited after their initial writing, well into the Persian period. No superstition required. But even taken at face value, the context of Jeremiah 29 is several years before Jerusalem’s destruction but after the exile had begun, so it obviously didn’t refer to 70 years starting from an unspecified future event.
The simple fact is that the land of Chaldea or Shinar remains uninhabited even today fulfilling Bible prophecy.
😂🤦♂️ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillah. But that’s by no means the only part that’s still inhabited of course.
That is simply opinion. If the 70 years were marked by a distinct event that can be dated such as the Fall of Babylon in 539 BCE then common sense would dictate that the 70 years would have not some 'fuzzy' beginning but a distinct event in terms of history and chronology
Actually it’s basic arithmetic. 🤦♂️ History finds a specific significant event in 609BCE right where it’s expected.
My comment of COJ is relevant because he has dealt with is subject and was your mentor or influencer.
Notice how the apologist contradicts himself by first fallaciously claiming I said something not supported by Jonsson (as if that would matter), and then asserting that Jonsson is my mentor. 🤦♂️
Well if the towns were not resettled then that could well mean that the cities or towns were unoccupied for one would not expect an outsider such as a modern-day archaeologist to use the same language or terms as the prophet Jeremiah.
Wow. 🤦♂️ Maybe he needs a venn diagram. The towns that were destroyed remained unsettled until the Persian period. Other settlements were not destroyed and remained inhabited.
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
‘scholar’:
two deportations are subsumed as one Jewish or Babylonian Exile as treated by most historians.
Indeed. 😂 The Jewish exile is broadly recognised as beginning in early 597BCE when most of Jerusalem’s population were deported to Babylon, though there were other deportation in 587BCE (when the city was also destroyed) and in 582BCE. See also Ezekiel 40:1.
Jer. 29:10 simply addresses the fact of their imminent release from Babylon having been exiled for 70 years thus in anticipation of their Return- release from Exile.
I understand that you need to cling to this dogma despite the fact that it would be plainly stupid to turn attention to their return if they had by then already returned. Sad really.
and with the Return from Exile of the Jews in 537 BCE.
538BCE. Though many Jews remained in Babylon.
Jeremiah described the 'judgement' in terms of the king, city and land of Chaldea and this did not happen synchronistically in 539BCE
The ‘judgement’ (a superstitious interpretation of Persia’s conquest of Babylon) of the king and city was very definitely in 539BCE. The hyperbole about the whole land of Chaldea was never fulfilled of course, and the region is still quite inhabited.
Further, if it argued that the 70 years ended in 539 BCE with the Fall of Babylon then that would mean that the beginning was in 609 BCE wherein nothing of consequence marked that year
609BCE is the year in which Babylon conquered the last vestige of the Assyrian empire at Harran, definitively marking Babylon as the new world power. But JWs conveniently forget about the ‘march of the world powers’ at this juncture. 🤣 Your fallacious argument from authority and ad hominem about Jonsson is entirely irrelevant.
Stern's description of the state of the cities in unoccupied Judah matches perfectly Jeremeiah's prophecy. and agrees perfectly with our interpretation of the 70 years of desolation.
So ‘scholar’ chooses to continue to lie. Stern doesn’t say Judah was unoccupied at all, he said that the towns that were destroyed weren’t resettled until the Persian period. Stern adds that small settlements remained throughout Judea during the neo-Babylonian period, and he further adds that the area of Benjamin wasn’t destroyed.
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
‘scholar’:
🦗 🦗 🦗
Yeah, best not draw further attention to your attempted misrepresentation of Stern. 😂
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
‘scholar’:
Now for your experiment, I invite the participants to focus on the following texts
Despite the attempt at cherry picking, none of those verses suggest a ‘secondary fulfilment’. Of course, it’s misdirection anyway because the ‘primary fulfilment’ of the story never actually happened, and the whole story is an analogy, but still nothing to do with the JW idiocy.
Now the question to be asked for all of these texts that are well distributed throughout chapter 4 is, What is the common factor for all of these verses?
The common themes of the verses is things that are specifically depicted as affecting Nebuchadnezzar, though it is obviously not historical as it is entirely incompatible with Nebuchadnezzar’s character or religious beliefs.
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
‘scholar’:
I would suggest that the vacancy must have occurred SOON after 607 BCE which was Neb's 18th regnal year.
Nope, that’s when Nebuchadnezzar was directing the blockade against Tyre. (And no, not the mainland city as falsely claimed by JWs, which was Ushu.)
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
‘scholar’:
Delusional nonsense. Such a person as you describe would lack not only integrity but credibility which is a good description of a fool..
It’s very telling when someone claims that not holding superstitions is delusional. 🤦♂️
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
'scholar':
Jeremiah specifically describes the 70 years as a period of servitude to Babylon, a period wherein the Land of Judah was made desolate and the fact of a Jewish Exile.
See how the apologist needs to get vague about referring to the exile to try to associate it with the 70 years, because the fact is that the Bible never refers to 70 years of exile. Most of the Jews were exiled (early 597BCE) about 11 years prior to Jerusalem's destruction, and Jeremiah wrote to them (594BCE) about Babylon's 70 years several years before Jerusalem was destroyed (587BCE). It would be entirely meaningless to tell those people that the exile would end 70 years after some unstated future starting point. 'scholar' can't get around that fact, so he will continue to flounder, jeer and misdirect.
Further, the calling to account of Babylon could only have occurred after the fact of the fulfilment of the 70 years which could have been at the Return of the Exiles.
Complete nonsense. Jeremiah 29:10 is very clear that Babylon's 70 years would end, and then attention would be given to the Jews' return from Babylon after that. The authors of 2 Chronicles and of Daniel understood that the 'calling to account' of Babylon's king quite definitely referred to the Persian conquest of Babylon in 539BCE. No 'judgement' befell either Babylon or Cyrus in 537BCE.
You refer to Stern's article but this also supports the view that Judah was desolate for 70 years so you need to be careful with archaeology opinion and read more widely.
Stern's article supports the fact that much of Judea was desolate during the Neo-Babylonian period. Specifically, Stern's article refers to the period from Nebuchadnezzar’s first regnal year (604BCE) until Cyrus’ first regnal year in Babylon (538BCE), which is not 70 years. But even if he had said it matched a period of 70 years exactly, it would hardly matter, because it would remain the fact that Babylon's 70 years was not a period of exile. Additionally, Stern actually says "not a single town destroyed by the Babylonians was resettled", indicating that the towns that were destroyed remained desolate until the Persian period, which is quite different to the JW claim that all the towns of Judea were uninhabited.
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
'scholar':
You do not even believe in the Bible anyway and do not offer any alternative to its teachings and doctrines so until you have something to offer your ridicule amounts to nothing.
It is not necessary to hold any particular superstitious belief in order to assess the relevant texts, nor is it necessary to present some alternative superstitious belief in order to demonstrate that yours is unfounded. But I have provided substantial relevant information about the subject.
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
'scholar':
Notice how Jeffro avoids the fact that the NB Chronicles omit any mention of Neb's vacancy off the throne for a period of 7 years.
Huh? That doesn't even make sense! Since there was no 7-year vacancy, why would anyone expect it to be shown in Babylonian chronicles? But feel free to suggest where during Nebuchadnezzar's reign the vacancy occurred. 🤦♂️
