Posts by Jeffro

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

Fisherman:

Jeffro uses too much fallacy in his debate with scholar.

🤣 demonstrate one fallacy I used

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

Pierre1977:

My intention was not to attack you.

Yeah, sure, totally not trying to ‘poison the well’. Just your totally normal way of consistently referring to people. 🤦‍♂️

Didn't I tell you that I don't care about the Jehovah's Witness' fixation on 538 vs. 537 B. C. E.?

So? That comment you responded to was about the broader context of the whole thread. You’re not the centre of the universe.

I don't see anything wrong with someone being over 110 years old.

Well, yeah, you can take that view (the ‘God is magic’ card,, but by that token, ‘scholar’ can’t claim 538 BCE is impossible either). But that isn’ even a mainstream Christian view let alone historical. Ezra isn’t generally regarded as being born until after 500BCE.

Actually, Hillah is adjacent to Ancient Babylon, but not on it.

You really imagine everyone in Babylon lived in that little patch of ruins a few hundred metres across? 😂

Although the prophecy says in Ezekiel 26:14 says that Tyre won't be rebuild, it also says that it “shall be a place for the spreading of nets”, showing that “not rebuild” doesn't mean “uninhabited“ with not anything build.

There’s a whole city there. And we’ll just ignore the verse about Tyre not even being found. 😂

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

The usual drivel devoid of reality. Just go away. You’ve been trounced enough for now.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

'scholar' desperately needs it to be 'impossible' for a contingent of Jews to have prepared for a journey from Babylon to Judea in just a couple of months. Of course, it is entirely possible that teams of people could have made the necessary preparations, and many sources agree that 538 BCE is the correct year. But 'scholar' needs it to be impossible even though it is supposedly possible for God to accomplish anything.

JWs believe the obviously mythological story of Moses and the 'exodus'. In that story, Moses was 80 when he spoke to the conveniently unnamed pharaoh, and after 40 years in the wilderness, he was 120, so he was still 80 when they supposedly left Egypt in Abib (March/April) of, according to JWs, 1513BCE (according to Bible chronology this would actually be 1445BCE, though it doesn't actually depict a historical event).

Even after Moses had initially lied to the anonymous pharaoh by asking to just go on a three day trip (Exodus 5:3), the Israelites (purportedly millions of them according to Insight, volume 1, page 778) had still not made any travel preparations because they hadn't listened to Moses at all (Exodus 6:9, 12). The series of events in chapters 7 through 11 explicitly cover only a few days, repeatedly referring to "tomorrow", and even part way through the plagues, Moses was still telling the lie that it was just for a 3-day trip (Exodus 8:27). So the Israelites apparently required very little time indeed to prepare for their journey from Egypt to 'the promised land' which was then supposedly interrupted by 40 years in the 'wilderness'.

So, even though it is actually practically possible for the Jews to have organised a journey from Babylon to Jerusalem in a few months, in view of JW superstitions, it is especially preposterous that 'scholar' believes it is 'impossible'.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

‘scholar’:

dependent on the calendar used by Ezra

Ezra used Nisan-based accession dating. You claim to understand this subject matter but you need every little thing explained to you. 😂

Irrespective, Iyyar of 536BCE wasn’t part of Cyrus’ second year regardless of which of the dating systems is chosen, and therefore is not the year the temp foundations were laid. Despite your plaintive claims and desperate need for your religious superstitions, it isn’t a problem at all for a contingency of Jews to have returned to Jerusalem in 538BCE. (Though it is amusing that ‘all things are possible with God’ unless it’s inconvenient for JW dogma. 😂)

In summary, Babylon’s 70 years began when the last Assyrian king was defeated in 609BCE and ended when Babylon’s king was ‘called to account’ in 539 BCE. The Jewish exile began in early 597BCE, and Jerusalem’s desolation began in 587BCE (Ezekiel 40:1). After Babylon’s 70 years ended in 539BCE, attention was then given to the Jews’ return in 538BCE, after the land had rested 49 years (compare Leviticus 25:8). Temple reconstruction then began in Cyrus’ 2nd regnal year, 537 BCE.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

🤦‍♂️

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

Such a liar! Though Orthodox (Hasidic) Judaism does differ from secular history, and they posit that Jehoiakim was exiled 70 years prior to Persia’s conquest of Babylon, they hold that the period from Jerusalem’s destruction until the Jews’ return was 52 years.

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/3915966/jewish/Timeline-of-Jewish-History.htm#q7

3319 Jehoiakim exiled

3327 Jehoiachin exiled

3338 Jerusalem destroyed

3389 Babylon conquered by Persia

3390 Jews return

(The Jewish Encyclopaedia on the other hand gives early 597BCE for the start of the exile, consistent with secular history.)

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

Look how doggedly the apologist tries to defend his ‘fuzzy’ assignment of 537BCE! 😂

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

It is particularly amusing that the JW apologist argues that the entirely plausible return of a contingent of Jews in 538 BCE is ‘impossible’ but the same standard isn’t applied elsewhere.

The entire population of Egypt exiled to Babylon for 40 years? The sun remaining still so Joshua could murder more people? A global flood killing everything and requiring subsequent evolution at an unprecedented rate? ‘God can do anything.’ 🤦‍♂️ But 6 months to prepare for and make a trip from Babylon to Judea, purportedly with God’s blessing? ‘Impossible!’ Maybe there was an iron chariot in the way (Judges 1:19). 😂

(Though not by any means a requirement, the Jews could have anticipated even earlier that they may be able to return, allowing even longer for preparations, since they may already have known of Cyrus’ reputation for religious tolerance. The claim that Cyrus made a special decree only for the Jews remains superstitious nonsense.)

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

Diogenesister:

I'm very ignorant about all this but weren't there Jews left behind in Jerusalem who could easily have began preparations particularly as they were working class and likely to be the kind to do most of the actual rebuilding / cleaning etc?.

I was referring to preparations for making the trip from Babylon to Jerusalem rather than preparation for rebuilding Jerusalem.

But yes, as far as the actual rebuilding goes, although Jerusalem may have had few people or none, there were still some people in Judea after Jerusalem was destroyed, as confirmed by Stern, and their descendants may also have assisted with preparations for the rebuilding.