for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Fisherman:
Still waiting for you to back up your claim that I've employed logical fallacies too.
Read.
I suppose it's possible that I overestimated his skills and he legitimately does not understand the request...
Fisherman, in order for you to demonstrate that I have employed a logical fallacy, you need to:
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Fisherman:
I have already specifically rebutted the Watch Tower Society's attempts to defend 607.
No you haven’t.
Such obvious lies. Already linked responses to their nonsense on this thread earlier today.
And, no, you have not demonstrated where I have employed any logical fallacies.
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
'scholar':
The Bible clearly shows that the 70 years was a period of Exile when the Jews were deported to Babylon leaving behind a desolated homeland in accordance with Jeremiah's prophecy.
I'm sure you'll be able to quote the verse that indicates 70 years of exile then. 🙄😂
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Fisherman:
Im interested in proof and not rehashing the same argument wt has already rebutted.
The Watch Tower Society's attempts to defend its doctrines are pathetic. I have already specifically rebutted the Watch Tower Society's attempts to defend 607 BCE in 2011, 2012 and 2013, and their 2014 attempt to defend their false beliefs about 1914. I am not aware of any Watch Tower Society rebuttals to those.
Still waiting for you to back up your claim that I've employed logical fallacies too.
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
‘scholar’:
The Bible clearly shows that the 70 years was a period of Exile when the Jews were deported to Babylon leaving behind a desolated homeland in accordance with Jeremiah's prophecy.
🤦♂️ Yeah, it’s so ‘clear’ that only JWs (and some extremely minor sects affiliated with the Bible Student movement) believe the 607BCE nonsense. 😂 And JWs lie to such a great extent about it that they even claim that Nisan began in May of ‘588BCE’ (The Watchtower, 1 November 2011, p. 28), even though they know very well that their supposedly ‘most important day of the year’ never begins in May.
Again nonsense for Rolf Furuli has demonstrated that VAT 4956 has been dated incorrectly and can now be used as evidence in support of 607 BCE.
😂🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂🤣
Pathetic.
And the same goes for Fisherman’s unsophisticated response.
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Fisherman:
Given a 70 year exile ending in 539 (circa) the beginning of such exile should begin in 609
Wrong from the first sentence. 🤦♂️ The Bible never mentions a 70 year exile. All the nations were to serve Babylon during Babylon’s 70 years (Jeremiah 25:11). Nations could serve Babylon in their own land, and only faced exile if they refused (Jeremiah 27:8-11). When Babylon’s 70 years ended, it would be called to account, which happened in 539 BCE when it was conquered by Persia (Jeremiah 25:12; Daniel 5:26-31; 2 Chronicles 36:20). After Babylon’s 70 years ended, attention would then be given to the Jews’ return (Jeremiah 29:10; 2 Chronicles 36:21). But it is true that Assyria’s final king was defeated in 609BCE, which nicely harmonises with the beginning of Babylon’s 70 years of dominance.
Now if there is scientific evidence that Jerusalem was destroyed circa 586 or debunking 607
In addition to the Bible, VAT4956 provides astronomical confirmation that 587BCE (not 586BCE) is the correct year. See also 586 or 587?
Carbon dating of burn sites also confirms it occurred in the early 6th century BCE; carbon dating for the period is less specific, but just serves as an additional confirmation.
wt has made a rebuttal to those interpretations
Indeed. 😂
The Watch Tower Society’s 2011 attempt to defend 607
The Watch Tower Society’s 2012 attempt to defend 607
The Watch Tower Society’s 2013 attempt to defend 607
The Watch Tower Society’s 2014 attempt to defend 1914
To revisit the same arguments again is annoying because they are only views that I disagree with.
Objecting to information solely on the basis that you disagree with it is fallacious. He was supposed to demonstrate my supposed fallacies. Maybe he misunderstood the request. 🤦♂️ 😂
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Fisherman:
Jeffro uses too much fallacy in his debate with scholar.
🤣 demonstrate one fallacy I used
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Pierre1977:
My intention was not to attack you.
Yeah, sure, totally not trying to ‘poison the well’. Just your totally normal way of consistently referring to people. 🤦♂️
Didn't I tell you that I don't care about the Jehovah's Witness' fixation on 538 vs. 537 B. C. E.?
So? That comment you responded to was about the broader context of the whole thread. You’re not the centre of the universe.
I don't see anything wrong with someone being over 110 years old.
Well, yeah, you can take that view (the ‘God is magic’ card,, but by that token, ‘scholar’ can’t claim 538 BCE is impossible either). But that isn’ even a mainstream Christian view let alone historical. Ezra isn’t generally regarded as being born until after 500BCE.
Actually, Hillah is adjacent to Ancient Babylon, but not on it.
You really imagine everyone in Babylon lived in that little patch of ruins a few hundred metres across? 😂
Although the prophecy says in Ezekiel 26:14 says that Tyre won't be rebuild, it also says that it “shall be a place for the spreading of nets”, showing that “not rebuild” doesn't mean “uninhabited“ with not anything build.
There’s a whole city there. And we’ll just ignore the verse about Tyre not even being found. 😂
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
The usual drivel devoid of reality. Just go away. You’ve been trounced enough for now.
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
'scholar' desperately needs it to be 'impossible' for a contingent of Jews to have prepared for a journey from Babylon to Judea in just a couple of months. Of course, it is entirely possible that teams of people could have made the necessary preparations, and many sources agree that 538 BCE is the correct year. But 'scholar' needs it to be impossible even though it is supposedly possible for God to accomplish anything.
JWs believe the obviously mythological story of Moses and the 'exodus'. In that story, Moses was 80 when he spoke to the conveniently unnamed pharaoh, and after 40 years in the wilderness, he was 120, so he was still 80 when they supposedly left Egypt in Abib (March/April) of, according to JWs, 1513BCE (according to Bible chronology this would actually be 1445BCE, though it doesn't actually depict a historical event).
Even after Moses had initially lied to the anonymous pharaoh by asking to just go on a three day trip (Exodus 5:3), the Israelites (purportedly millions of them according to Insight, volume 1, page 778) had still not made any travel preparations because they hadn't listened to Moses at all (Exodus 6:9, 12). The series of events in chapters 7 through 11 explicitly cover only a few days, repeatedly referring to "tomorrow", and even part way through the plagues, Moses was still telling the lie that it was just for a 3-day trip (Exodus 8:27). So the Israelites apparently required very little time indeed to prepare for their journey from Egypt to 'the promised land' which was then supposedly interrupted by 40 years in the 'wilderness'.
So, even though it is actually practically possible for the Jews to have organised a journey from Babylon to Jerusalem in a few months, in view of JW superstitions, it is especially preposterous that 'scholar' believes it is 'impossible'.
