Posts by Jeffro

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

slimboyfat:

How long would it take to rebuild Tyre? I reckon it would take a Goodyear. 🙂

At least, but it might be a bit of a letdown if the repairs didn’t gain traction.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

slimboyfat:

Check out the images on Google

Your Christadelphian 'friend', like the Watch Tower Society, doesn't want you to know (or may not even know for himself) that at the time of ancient Tyre, the mainland city was Ushu, not Tyre.

Despite JW claims, the mainland city was relatively unfortified and wasn't the area Nebuchadnezzar took 13 years trying to attack, which was actually a blockade intended to prevent supplies reaching the island. Several verses refer to the shock that Tyre’s supposed destruction would cause for the people of other islands (Ezekiel 26:15–18; 27:35), indicating that it was indeed the city on the island rather than the mainland that Nebuchadnezzar was ‘prophesied’ to destroy “in the midst of the sea” (Ezekiel 26:5).

After Alexander's plan to attack Tyre from the causeway failed, Alexander hired people from Cyprus and Sidon to attack Tyre from the sea and eventually scaling the southern wall and entering the city.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

Pierre1977:

Clearly not simply by the location because Ezekiel said Fishermen would be there.

Did he? He didn’t actually mention fishermen and he certainly didn’t say they would live there. Ezekiel said Tyre was supposed to become a bare rock suitable for spreading out fishing nets. Now, that does suggest fishermen, but not a built up area of any kind. Exactly the opposite, Ezekiel said it would be a place to spread out fishing nets because it would be a “bare rock”.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

‘scholar’:

Nope. According to the data in VAT 4956 the eclipse is more correctly assigned to 15 July 588 BC and not to 5 July 568 BCE as the result of the research by WT scholars.

It is definitionally impossible for an eclipse on 15 Simanu to have occurred on 15 July in any year during the Neo-Babylonian period.

And what are the names of these ‘WT scholars’? 😂 Funny how the dismal 2011 attempt at defending their nonsense didn’t name the “researchers” who supposedly analysed VAT4956.

The said scholar does not trust your interpretation of PD's tabulation!!

So? You’ve already shown that you couldn’t even understand the placement of the intercalary month in early 587BCE, so your adjudication means nothing.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

Pierre1977:

And since when does farmland count as an rebuilt city?

It counts as inhabited. 🙄 Maybe he thinks farms farm themselves. And we won’t tell him about the built up area on the other side of the river to the north. 🤦‍♂️ Who would have guessed that land allocation, heritage listing and building decisions were controlled by a superstitious religious text. 😂 Additionally, given the central location of the inner city (the Ishtar gate being just one of various entrances), it’s incredibly naive to assert that the outer city didn’t extend to the south where Hillah is (let alone the built up area on the other side of the river less than 1km away from the Ishtar gate and even closer to the rest of the heritage listed ruins). 🤦‍♂️

I only claimed that Tyre isn't fully rebuilt, not that not any part of it is rebuilt. All of Tyre should be rebuilt to make the prophecy unfulfilled.

Why? Because you say so? 😂 It should have been completely destroyed with no buildings left for the prophecy to be fulfilled too, but that never happened.

And Tyre should have the glory of Ancient times, too, as I said:

And “not being found” again raises the question: In what way found? Clearly not simply by the location because Ezekiel said Fishermen would be there. So, “not being found” doesn't mean not being located by anyone, but not in the condition of a mighty and wealthy port city like Tyre once was.

From the inspired book of Pierre. 😂 Funny how it’s not ‘really’ rebuilt at all if it’s not ‘fully rebuilt’, but a place to put fishing nets necessitates a built up area. 🤦‍♂️ You do realise, I hope, that the point of describing it as an area to lay out fishing nets (Ezekiel 26:5) conveyed that it was to be flat - a “bare rock”, with all the buildings gone (Ezekiel 26:4). That was the point, hence the city not being found. 🤦‍♂️ But because that failed it gets conveniently reinterpreted as ‘oh, it can still be a fishing village’ (with well over 100,000 people).🙄

“He that praises himself spatters himself.” — Romanian proverb

Oh no. I hope you don’t put a gypsy curse on me too.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

Diogenesister:

Apologies for the confusion I didn't put it very clearly. What I meant was that having people in and around Jerusalem (probably old servants & their famillies) would help speed up preparations. (I'm sure they dispatched messengers to Jerusalem straight away) I just imagined they wouldn't need to take so much if things were waiting on their arrival? Just a supposition that would speed up the job?

You may be right, though there aren’t any specific details available about preparing Jerusalem for the arrival of the returnees. There were people still in Judea, particularly the region of Benjamin but also other small settlements, so they might have been able to assist with getting the area functional when they heard about those coming from Babylon. But even if their weren’t, the Jews returning from Babylon wouldn’t need to bring building materials with them on the journey, just what they needed for the journey itself and to initially settle. Work on the temple foundations didn’t begin until 537BCE.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

slimboyfat:

I attended a Christadelphian lecture where the speaker claimed that Tyre wasn’t rebuilt because the central part of the current settlement still contains the old ruins. He used Google maps and it seemed to check out. What this means for Bible prophecy I don’t know.

🤦‍♂️ the UNESCO heritage site of the Tyre Hippodrome is an area that was part of the mainland city of Ushu when Tyre was still an island, so it means absolutely nothing. It’s even more desperate than Pierre’s plaintive arbitrary claim that Tyre is not rebuilt at all unless it’s ‘fully rebuilt’, whatever that means.

Despite their desperation, Tyre wasn’t actually completely destroyed let alone not fully rebuilt after Alexander conquered the city, and it wasn’t burned as falsely suggested in the Bible. It continued to function throughout the Seleucid, Greek and Roman periods. It had a decline in the 13th century after Muslim conquest but continued to exist, as it still does even now.

Please don’t encourage the nutters.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

‘scholar’:

Nope, it is June 30/ July 1,588 BC.according to VAT 4956

Now he’s happy to include the previous evening! 😂🤦‍♂️ But Simanu never begins on June 30 (or any day after 27 June) on the Julian calendar in the Neo-Babylonian period either. And ‘scholar’ was adamant that the previous evening isn’t a valid starting point for PD anyway. 😂 And of course VAT4956 says nothing of the sort because it refers to an eclipse on 15 Simanu (5 July 568BCE), not 1 Simanu for the wrong date in the wrong month in a different year.

And unfortunately for ‘scholar’, I’ve already demonstrated that I have interpreted PD correctly where ‘scholar’ dismally failed.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

'scholar':

That is your opinion I simply notice that the intercalary month is featured on the same line as the year 588 BCE and its insertion thereof in my mind raises a legitimate question regarding the beginning of the following year of 588 BC.

He can't even properly interpret a table. No wonder he accepts JW doctrines.🤦‍♂️

We are dealing with the data in VAT 4956 and not the data of P & D and that data demonstrates that regarding Neb's 37 th year that Simanu began in May.

Wow. No, doofus, Simanu began on 21 June in that year. But you believe it started on 1 July, remember? It’s Nisanu that you incorrectly believe began in May.🤦‍♂️

You've been sufficiently trounced yet again. Just go away.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

'scholar':

The simpler fact is if you are going to refer to the tables then quote the table correctly and PD lists for the beginning of Nisan is April 4 and not April 3 for the year 588 BC.

I wasn't quoting the table when I correctly referred to the Babylonian custom of reckoning the day from sunset. Anyone with a basic understanding of the subject would realise that my reference to "the evening of 3 April" is the day of "4 April", and that this is why other sources (including The Watchtower) use notation such as "3/4 April" for this purpose.

The fact is that PD shows for the year 588 BC that there is an intercalary month or extra month was added to the preceding year 0f 587 BC which means that the New Year began not in April but May 588 BC.

It's things like this that show 'scholar' to be thoroughly inept or brutally dishonest. 🙄

'scholar', maybe read this slowly so you understand... When referring to years BC, smaller numbers are more recent than larger numbers. The intercalary month in early 587BCE only more strongly confirms that there was no intercalary month before Nisanu of 588BCE.🤦‍♂️

But here's another hint for you... the year that normal people call 588BCE is actually called 608BCE in JW chronology, so you shouldn't be looking for an intercalary month there anyway. The year that JWs call '588BCE' is what normal people call 568BCE, and it does have an intercalary month before Nisanu. That intercalary month is the reason why Nisanu of 568BCE began on 23 April instead of 25 March. (I have considered the possiblity that the dimwitted Watchtower writers looked at the PD table for 568BCE, saw "5/23" for the start of Aru for that year, and took it as "2/3 May" instead of "23 May". In any case, the JW reckoning is quite impossible.)

VAT 4956 shows differently and is not a contrivance as the eclipse dated July 15 588 matches well with the eclipse mentioned in VAT 4956 -3 Simanu which is further supported by the tablet's reference to an additional month which means that the New Year did not start until May2/3 which is is well explained in the footnote 17.

Since Simanu never begins in July, and because 588BCE in normal chronology is 608BCE in JW chronology, you're obviously doubly wrong. But this is what you get when you start with your conclusion and then desperately try to make the facts fit around it. 🤣

VAT 4956 - Lunar eclipse on 15 Simanu (Babylonian 3rd month) -

Yes, VAT 4956 here refers to an eclipse in Simanu, which always begins in May or June on the Julian calendar in the Neo-Babylonian period.

Therefore Simanu began 15 days earlier -

Well, strictly speaking, 1 Simanu was 14 days earlier. But I wouldn't expect you to start being accurate now...

There was a lunar eclipse July 15 588 BC Julian calendar
Thus, the first day of Simanu would be June 30/.1 July 588 BC Julian calendar

You've already committed the fallacy of assuming your conclusion, but let's see where this goes... 🤣 Since Simanu always begins in May or June, July 15 can never be 15 Simanu, so an eclipse on July 15 in any year of the Neo-Babylonian period cannot be the eclipse on 15 Simanu. And you're referring to a year from PD's tables that would actually be called 608BCE in JW chronology. 🙄

Therefore, Nisanu would have begun two months earlier on May2/3 588 BC

Which is, of course, impossible.

But when we look at the correct year, 568BCE, we see there was indeed an intercalary month before Nisanu as confirmed by PD & VAT4956, and the eclipse on 15 Simanu is readily identified as the one that occurred on 5 July 568BCE.

Normally, according to P&D the new year would have begun on 4 Nisanu-3/ 4 April 588 BC - Julian calendar
VAT 4956 states that an extra month was added after the 12th month Addaru of the preceding year which then means that the new year of 588 BCE did not start until May 2/3.
Thus, the date of this lunar eclipse in 588 BC well fits the data on the tablet, VAT 4956

PD already includes all the intercalary months, including Adar II starting on 5 March 568BCE. There was no need to add an extra month immediately before Nisanu of 588BCE, and the PD tables show that Adar II never begins in April (hence the Watch Tower Society's 'requirement' for one here is special pleading).

Any honest person with a decent understanding of the subject would immediately recognise that you have the wrong year if you're trying to make Nisanu start in May. Hence, you are again shown to be inept, dishonest, or both.