Jeffro

Joined

• started 46 topics
• posted 6,784 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Jeffro

• 
  13

  Progress on the NWT Study Bible

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the society has been working on the nwt study bible since the revised nwt was released in 2013. so far they done the nt up to philemon.

  that makes about 17% of the entire bible including the hebrew/aramaic scriptures.

  at that rate the study edition of the whole nwt will be completed sometime around the year 2077. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  Their ’Study’ Bible is suspiciously missing commentary on things that are inconvenient. For example, JW dogma places Jesus’ presence before the great tribulation, but Matthew 24:21, 29 clearly places it after the great tribulation. Their ‘solution’? Completely ignore reference to those verses in their study notes. 🤦‍♂️
• 
  25

  printed magazines

  by pepperheart2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi does any body know if the watchtower are printing any new awakes etc as these past 8 months or so i have had magazines from four different carts from four different towns 100s of miles apart and the most recent magazines that they all had were from 2021..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  slimboyfat (paraphrasing JW video):

  now I focus on making placements of love and concern by our conversations which is more satisfying

  This schtick of ‘showing personal interest’ until they can work their religious beliefs into a conversation is just sad.
• 
  48

  The Date for the Memorial is WRONG this year!

  by Kelley959 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  an interesting video was on youtube with a person claiming that the memorial date for 2024 was wrong.

  so i consulted three different jewish calendars online and sure enough, he appears to be right.

  i went back to 2014 and forward to 2027. they have the future dates listed.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  Phizzy:

  There is also a Thread by the incredible Leolaia, from years ago, which in addition to Jeffro's perhaps ? shows that EVERY year they get it wrong ! Their method of calculating is wrong of course, but Leolaia showed from the historical roots of Passover why it is wrong every year IIRC.

  My thread (from11 years ago) addressed how the date ‘presumptuously’ chosen by the ’governing body’ is not consistent with the Metonic cycle, and didn’t cover every aspect of how the Jews historically established the date for Passover. Any thread by Leolaia is definitely worth considering. (Some of the details in my thread were a little hastily thrown together, and I also left a little trap in one of my later comments in the thread, but no one took the bait. 😉)
• 
  48

  The Date for the Memorial is WRONG this year!

  by Kelley959 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  an interesting video was on youtube with a person claiming that the memorial date for 2024 was wrong.

  so i consulted three different jewish calendars online and sure enough, he appears to be right.

  i went back to 2014 and forward to 2027. they have the future dates listed.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  stan livedeath:

  I could never understand the words "see" a new moon. Surely the new moon is not visible--its in full shadow.

  The astronomical new moon as the term is used by modern astronomers is not illuminated at all. However, the term traditionally referred to when the first sliver of the moon became visible, generally between 1% and 3% illumination.
• 
  48

  The Date for the Memorial is WRONG this year!

  by Kelley959 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  an interesting video was on youtube with a person claiming that the memorial date for 2024 was wrong.

  so i consulted three different jewish calendars online and sure enough, he appears to be right.

  i went back to 2014 and forward to 2027. they have the future dates listed.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  See also The most important day of the year. Sometimes. Sort of.
• 
  43

  How do JWs know that less than 150,000 Christians existed before the 20th Century?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  according to watchtower, only anointed christians existed between the first and 20th centuries.

  the great crowd of other sheep only began forming after the 20th century started.. how do they support this conclusion?

  .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  The whole JW doctrine of the apostasy after the first century is nonsense. In their pitiful Ezekiel book from 2018, they claim that the second century ‘apostasy’ was a ‘spiritual exile’ analogous to the exile to Babylon. But that would mean the ‘apostasy’ was itself a ‘punishment’, but without any actual reason to warrant punishment in the first place.
• 
  77

  How would you define RELIGION, and why?

  by Fernando in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  "judge" rutherford defined or classified all religion as "a snare and a racket" in his books "religion" and "enemies".. after rutherford's death in 1942, his protege, watchtower vice president, and aclu darling, hayden c. covington, in the early 1950's, for reasons of legal expedience and supremacist aspirations, suddenly converted the watchtower into a religion.. this was done alongside one of the most audacious, spurious and longstanding swindles of the us legal system.

  this involved twisting philippians 1:7 and misrepresenting the watchtower's true nature, objectives and activities.. .

  this meant that it became necessary for the watchtower to suddenly reclassify and redefine religion (w51 1/15 p. 43 new legal booklet well named; w51 8/15 p. 511 questions from readers; yb75 p. 161 part 2 "for gladys bolton...").. two new watchtower classifications were suddenly created: "true religion" and "false religion".. now "true religion" meant "true beliefs" whilst "belief" in ever changing watchtower doctrine was equated with the one "faith" of scripture.. all this while the watchtower increasingly and maliciously truncated, obfuscated and hid the liberating full "good news" (or unabridged gospel) of scripture, which it lyingly claimed (in court) that it was actually "defending and legally establishing".. how would you have defined religion before learning ttatt?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  1. Jesus died by crucifixion.

  Probably. It is possible that an eclipse at or around the time of his death may have enhanced superstitions that Jesus was in some way divine.
  

  2. He was buried.

  According to the narrative, he was placed in a tomb, not buried. What actually happened to his body is unknown.
  

  3. His death caused the disciples to despair and lose hope.

  Amazing. Sad event made people sad.🙄 This is just padding to get the special number 12.
  

  4. The tomb was empty (the most contested).

  No actual evidence for this apart from contradictory stories from decades later.
  

  5. The disciples had experiences which they believed were literal appearances of the risen Jesus (the most important proof).

  That people ‘believed’ something isn’t ‘proof’ of anything, and the details of what they believed happened are only in available in embellished stories written decades later. Even in the stories, the disciples don’t initially recognise the person as Jesus. 🙄
  

  6. The disciples were transformed from doubters to bold proclaimers.

  Wow. Superstitious people became convinced of something. Many things were taken as portents at the time so an eclipse, earthquake, or even a shadow could have made them think Jesus was back.
  

  7. The resurrection was the central message.

  Arguably, but the purported value of the ransom was really the more important aspect. The claim that Jesus was resurrected actually diminishes the value of the ‘sacrifice’, since he supposedly got a massive reward for a comparatively bad weekend.
  

  8. They preached the message of Jesus’ resurrection in Jerusalem.

  Sect based on superstition spread in a time when superstition was even more rife than it is now. Nothing remarkable about this.

  9. The Church was born and grew.

  Sect based on superstition developed further. Still nothing remarkable about this.
  

  10. Orthodox Jews who believed in Christ made Sunday their primary day of worship.

  Entirely wrong. Sunday became the primary day of Christian worship many years later due to ‘pagan’ influence when Christianity had spread beyond a Jewish religion and the majority of Christians were gentiles.
  

  11. James was converted to the faith when he saw the resurrected Jesus (James was a family skeptic).

  This is a tradition only.
  

  12. Paul was converted to the faith (Paul was an outsider skeptic and opposer).

  Paul’s version of his conversion contradicts the version in Acts, particularly the details about where he went immediately after, indicating that at least one version is unreliable. JWs (and other groups) today tell stories of formerly ‘violent opposers’ who converted, so Paul’s actual conversion to Christianity isn’t remarkable. Paul reports having visions on more than one occasion, at times not even knowing whether he was ‘in the spirit’, (and also alludes to ‘a thorn in the flesh’) which could suggest an underlying psychiatric or other condition (e.g., epilepsy, ergotism, syphillis etc) that could exacerbate superstitious beliefs.
  
• 
  77

  How would you define RELIGION, and why?

  by Fernando in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  "judge" rutherford defined or classified all religion as "a snare and a racket" in his books "religion" and "enemies".. after rutherford's death in 1942, his protege, watchtower vice president, and aclu darling, hayden c. covington, in the early 1950's, for reasons of legal expedience and supremacist aspirations, suddenly converted the watchtower into a religion.. this was done alongside one of the most audacious, spurious and longstanding swindles of the us legal system.

  this involved twisting philippians 1:7 and misrepresenting the watchtower's true nature, objectives and activities.. .

  this meant that it became necessary for the watchtower to suddenly reclassify and redefine religion (w51 1/15 p. 43 new legal booklet well named; w51 8/15 p. 511 questions from readers; yb75 p. 161 part 2 "for gladys bolton...").. two new watchtower classifications were suddenly created: "true religion" and "false religion".. now "true religion" meant "true beliefs" whilst "belief" in ever changing watchtower doctrine was equated with the one "faith" of scripture.. all this while the watchtower increasingly and maliciously truncated, obfuscated and hid the liberating full "good news" (or unabridged gospel) of scripture, which it lyingly claimed (in court) that it was actually "defending and legally establishing".. how would you have defined religion before learning ttatt?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  Sea Breeze:

  I gave you 12 reasons for my position.

  You didn’t. You listed some elements of a narrative without any evidence of any supernatural event. You tediously parrot creationist drivel and ignore anything inconvenient to your view. Just stop while you’re behind.
• 
  77

  How would you define RELIGION, and why?

  by Fernando in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  "judge" rutherford defined or classified all religion as "a snare and a racket" in his books "religion" and "enemies".. after rutherford's death in 1942, his protege, watchtower vice president, and aclu darling, hayden c. covington, in the early 1950's, for reasons of legal expedience and supremacist aspirations, suddenly converted the watchtower into a religion.. this was done alongside one of the most audacious, spurious and longstanding swindles of the us legal system.

  this involved twisting philippians 1:7 and misrepresenting the watchtower's true nature, objectives and activities.. .

  this meant that it became necessary for the watchtower to suddenly reclassify and redefine religion (w51 1/15 p. 43 new legal booklet well named; w51 8/15 p. 511 questions from readers; yb75 p. 161 part 2 "for gladys bolton...").. two new watchtower classifications were suddenly created: "true religion" and "false religion".. now "true religion" meant "true beliefs" whilst "belief" in ever changing watchtower doctrine was equated with the one "faith" of scripture.. all this while the watchtower increasingly and maliciously truncated, obfuscated and hid the liberating full "good news" (or unabridged gospel) of scripture, which it lyingly claimed (in court) that it was actually "defending and legally establishing".. how would you have defined religion before learning ttatt?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  While the above is far from "proof". There aren't any good explanations to explain these facts away.

  The only correct part of that is that it’s far from ‘proof’. It is entirely unremarkable that a Jewish sect started around the teachings of an itinerant rabbi (though anything he actually said is unknown and cannot be separated from stories made up about him decades later). The beliefs that he was magical or that he was resurrected were likely enhanced by an eclipse around the time of his execution. People in the first century also believed that Nero would return from the dead (Nero Redivivus) making the story of Jesus’ resurrection even less remarkable for the time. When early Christian expectations (that Jesus would return within a generation) were shown to be an obvious failure, they doubled down and made up new interpretations, just as 19th century Christians did after the Great Disappointment. See also ‘cargo cults’ for how easily such superstitions develop into sects.
  
• 
  77

  How would you define RELIGION, and why?

  by Fernando in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  "judge" rutherford defined or classified all religion as "a snare and a racket" in his books "religion" and "enemies".. after rutherford's death in 1942, his protege, watchtower vice president, and aclu darling, hayden c. covington, in the early 1950's, for reasons of legal expedience and supremacist aspirations, suddenly converted the watchtower into a religion.. this was done alongside one of the most audacious, spurious and longstanding swindles of the us legal system.

  this involved twisting philippians 1:7 and misrepresenting the watchtower's true nature, objectives and activities.. .

  this meant that it became necessary for the watchtower to suddenly reclassify and redefine religion (w51 1/15 p. 43 new legal booklet well named; w51 8/15 p. 511 questions from readers; yb75 p. 161 part 2 "for gladys bolton...").. two new watchtower classifications were suddenly created: "true religion" and "false religion".. now "true religion" meant "true beliefs" whilst "belief" in ever changing watchtower doctrine was equated with the one "faith" of scripture.. all this while the watchtower increasingly and maliciously truncated, obfuscated and hid the liberating full "good news" (or unabridged gospel) of scripture, which it lyingly claimed (in court) that it was actually "defending and legally establishing".. how would you have defined religion before learning ttatt?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  Sea Breeze’s position, a position common among uneducated or deliberately ignorant creationists, is that ‘Information is non material’. This kind of thinking is required for their superstitions about things like ‘prayer’ supposedly conveying information to (or in) an imaginary ‘spirit realm’ with no actual means of transmission. Back in reality, information is never independent of a physical medium.

  Sea Breeze rather inelegantly offered ‘the number 3’ as an example of ‘information’ and then clumsily offered that inanimate objects could never ‘encode information’. I should not have to explain the quite obvious contradiction …