Posts by Jeffro

271

VAT4956 - 530 BC destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar

by jwposter in

in my studies, i have concluded that year 530 bc was when the destruction of jerusalem occurred and the temple destroyed.

i had determined this prior to investigation of vat4956.

i had already found that the jubilees, sabbaticals, courses of the priests, and chronology attested to this.

Jeffro

joey jojo:

In their article - When was Jerusalem destroyed? (2011), they mention planets but do not cite what the tablets say about them, choosing to focus on the moon eclipses, which are prone to error and mis-interpretation.

Ah, yes... that dishonest piece of drivel... it's little wonder they avoid discussion of the planets.

See also The Watch Tower Society’s 2011 attempt to defend 607 along with my summary of VAT 4956 in the correct chronology in my Divided Kingdom timeline and the problems with the JW interpretation of VAT 4956 in my JW chronology timeline.

Feel free to let me know if any errors. (Not you, jwposter, you're not qualified.)

271

VAT4956 - 530 BC destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar

by jwposter in

in my studies, i have concluded that year 530 bc was when the destruction of jerusalem occurred and the temple destroyed.

i had determined this prior to investigation of vat4956.

i had already found that the jubilees, sabbaticals, courses of the priests, and chronology attested to this.

Jeffro

Which planet is in front?

How about half an hour later?

How about half an hour after that?

271

VAT4956 - 530 BC destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar

by jwposter in

in my studies, i have concluded that year 530 bc was when the destruction of jerusalem occurred and the temple destroyed.

i had determined this prior to investigation of vat4956.

i had already found that the jubilees, sabbaticals, courses of the priests, and chronology attested to this.

Jeffro

Let's test your skill...

Is Venus in front of or behind Saturn?

271

VAT4956 - 530 BC destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar

by jwposter in

in my studies, i have concluded that year 530 bc was when the destruction of jerusalem occurred and the temple destroyed.

i had determined this prior to investigation of vat4956.

i had already found that the jubilees, sabbaticals, courses of the priests, and chronology attested to this.

Jeffro

jwposter:

Anyone in their astronomy program can see in the northern hemisphere by simply clicking the days forward will see the constellations move from east to west just as described above.

Yes, and that direction they're moving in... to the west... which is to the right... that's the front. Good grief.

Even if you are looking due west in your astronomy program, the constellations still move further to the right when you step the time forward (amazing 😒).

Swallow is part of Pisces but not Piscis_Austrinus which is the original designation in line 2.

Wow. 🤦‍♂️ You can't just defer to an older translation because it's closer to what you want. The original text says SIM which is the Swallow. It doesn't say MUL.KU.

Now... Praesepe...

271

VAT4956 - 530 BC destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar

by jwposter in

in my studies, i have concluded that year 530 bc was when the destruction of jerusalem occurred and the temple destroyed.

i had determined this prior to investigation of vat4956.

i had already found that the jubilees, sabbaticals, courses of the priests, and chronology attested to this.

Jeffro

jwposter (quoting Mathieu Ossendrijver):

The directions “behind” and “in front of” are defined in relation to the daily rotation of the sky which proceeds from east to west for an observer in the northern hemisphere, i.e. “behind” is “to the east of”, and “in front of” is “to the west of”.

Oh dear. Ossendrijver would be mortified by your hackneyed interpretation of his statement. You've completely ignored the rotation aspect and latched on to west as a cardinal direction, which isn't what Ossendrijver is saying at all. As viewed in the northern hemisphere, rotation to the west of astronomical bodies is rotation further to the right. It is quite obvious that Ossendrijver isn't saying the sky rotates towards the west as the cardinal direction on earth, otherwise it would just stop when it got there, and we'd all be dead due to the halted rotation of the earth.

Fish of the Zodiac

The "fish of the zodiac" is a 1915 translation to indicate that the intended constellation is Pisces. Piscis Austrinus isn't a sign of the zodiac.

"Pisces Austrinus originated with the Babylonian constellation simply known as the Fish (MUL.KU)"

MUL.KU is not referenced in VAT 4956. On the same page as the first quote above, Ossendrijver says of SIM in Line 2 of VAT 4956:

“Swallow”, sinünütu(SIM): a part of Pisces.

Now that that's taken care of... Praesepe...?

271

VAT4956 - 530 BC destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar

by jwposter in

in my studies, i have concluded that year 530 bc was when the destruction of jerusalem occurred and the temple destroyed.

i had determined this prior to investigation of vat4956.

i had already found that the jubilees, sabbaticals, courses of the priests, and chronology attested to this.

Jeffro

If we pretend that the "fish of the zodiac" per the 1915 translation is Piscis Austrinus (ignoring that it isn't a zodiac sign, and go along with his wrong calendation, and ignore the solstice), it still isn't good for his alternative chronology for 512/511 BCE.

Obverse

Line 2 (4 Apr 512 BCE), Saturn is actually between Aquarius and Capricorn, quite far above the southern fish, and also behind it, as made more obvious once the fish sets below the horizon before Saturn.

Line 9 (4 May 512 BCE), Saturn is still far above and still behind the southern fish.

Reverse

Line 5 (24 Jan 511 BCE), Moon is in Pisces, not the southern fish

Line 17 (7 March 511 BCE), no planets in the southern fish, Mercury in front of Pisces (after sunrise) but too far from the band to be considered entering.

Line 19 (14 March 511 BCE), no planets in the southern fish. Mercury within the band of Pisces (not observable, achronycal and in line with the sun). Position of Venus also not within the band of Pisces.

Of course, he'll probably say the dates are wrong (probably won't provide the dates he 'really' means either), and will probably say the 'fish of the zodiac' is sometimes Pisces and sometimes Piscis Austrinus and you 'just have to know'. Or some trash like that. But maybe he'll surprise me.

271

VAT4956 - 530 BC destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar

by jwposter in

in my studies, i have concluded that year 530 bc was when the destruction of jerusalem occurred and the temple destroyed.

i had determined this prior to investigation of vat4956.

i had already found that the jubilees, sabbaticals, courses of the priests, and chronology attested to this.

Jeffro

His latest 'efforts' are already covered under the comment here. Notice how he continues to ignore the much more significant problems already pointed out, and instead wrongly claims I must have checked the wrong year.

He still doesn't understand that 'behind' relates to position in relation to motion toward the horizon, and not whether something is further to the west. He also incorrectly associates the "Fish of the Zodiac" (translated from ŠIM) from the the 1915 translation of VAT 4956 with Piscis Austrinus. However, the "Fish of the Zodiac" as shown in the 1915 translation refers to the zodiac sign called 'fish' (i.e. Pisces), but refers to what the Babylonians called 'the Swallow'. Piscis Austrinus was known to the Babylonians as 'the southern fish' (MUL.KU), but it wasn't a constellation of the Babylonian zodiac, and isn't in the original text of VAT 4956. The Babylonian zodiac had no sign between Aquarius and Capricorn, where 'the southern fish' is found.

Back in reality, in the correct year, 568 BCE, the moon was visible behind Taurus where expected, and Saturn was in front of Pisces (the Swallow) where expected.

But let's see what he has to say about Mars entering Praesepe in Month II...

271

VAT4956 - 530 BC destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar

by jwposter in

in my studies, i have concluded that year 530 bc was when the destruction of jerusalem occurred and the temple destroyed.

i had determined this prior to investigation of vat4956.

i had already found that the jubilees, sabbaticals, courses of the priests, and chronology attested to this.

Jeffro

I’ve already shown you to be thoroughly wrong. Just go away.

271

VAT4956 - 530 BC destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar

by jwposter in

in my studies, i have concluded that year 530 bc was when the destruction of jerusalem occurred and the temple destroyed.

i had determined this prior to investigation of vat4956.

i had already found that the jubilees, sabbaticals, courses of the priests, and chronology attested to this.

Jeffro

jwposter:

in -511 April 23rd would be 20 days into the lunar cycle.

If we grant the most latitude possible to this nonsense and pretend the time of the solstice doesn't matter and jump back to the start of the lunar cycle, the observations still do not match for 512 BCE.

Only bothered considering Obverse I but it is sufficient to make the point. The moon is a poor match in 512 BCE for the observations in VAT4956, but more significantly, the planetary observations are a complete failure. Line 2 - Saturn was behind Capricorn, not Pisces. Line 4 - Jupiter wasn't achronycal. Line 9 - Saturn would be described as in front of Aquarius or behind Capricorn, not behind Pisces. Line 10 - Mars was nowhere near Praesepe. Line 11 - Venus would be described as being in Cancer rather than below Leo. Line 13 - Jupiter in Leo, not Scorpio.

As an example of how the planetary observations are more important than lunar observations, Mars was only ever in Praesepe (M 44) during a few days in August in 512 BCE, which cannot in any way be contorted to 'Month II'. (And it's even worse for 588 BCE, during which Mars was never in Praesepe.) But it is a perfect match for 568 BCE, when Mars was in Praesepe during the period 24-27 May.

271

VAT4956 - 530 BC destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar

by jwposter in

in my studies, i have concluded that year 530 bc was when the destruction of jerusalem occurred and the temple destroyed.

i had determined this prior to investigation of vat4956.

i had already found that the jubilees, sabbaticals, courses of the priests, and chronology attested to this.

Jeffro

jwposter:

Again, the timeline I posted gives me an advantage because I know that the 37th year of Nebuchadnezzar is 512 BC without VAT4956.

You don’t ‘know’ that at all. You’ve made up a chronology, which deviates wildly from all scholarship in various fields, to suit your superstitions about Jesus, and you are desperately trying to make things fit around it. Come back when your thesis is peer reviewed.