I think another aspect of them giving POMI people an easier opportunity to return is that the longer they’re out, the more likely they are to stumble in the fact that none of it is actually true.
Posts by Jeffro
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45consequences for going against the direction.
by jehovaxx inthere are no serious consequences for doubting the gb.
there are no consequences for going against the direction.
we can now celebrate anything.. what will happen if you take blood, celebrate xmas and birthdays ect?.
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45
consequences for going against the direction.
by jehovaxx inthere are no serious consequences for doubting the gb.
there are no consequences for going against the direction.
we can now celebrate anything.. what will happen if you take blood, celebrate xmas and birthdays ect?.
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Jeffro
DesirousOfChange:
Will it really be evenly implemented in all locations?
Probably not. Not only are there different cultural aspects and different amounts of legal pressure in different countries, but JW ‘policies’ are a disparate jumble of material in various separate sources.
It’s being touted that this is definitely a big change and the new policy is all very clear. But I’ve asked for specific details several times and all I get in response is, ‘yes, you just have to say sorry at the appeal meeting’. And every time I’ve mentioned disassociation (particularly ‘by one’s actions’ as determined by elders) it’s been completely ignored altogether.
Based on what has officially been stated, the only changes are that they’ll go easier on minors (with a warning meeting with two elders before or instead of a judicial committee), there can be more than one meeting before a decision, elders can go a bit easier on people at appeal meetings, elders will contact disfellowshipped people more often, and JWs can invite disfellowshipped people to meetings and offer brief awkward greetings at the meeting (at the risk of being crash tackled by the nearest elder if they don’t realise the person is an evil apostate).
The changes still entail emotional manipulation (actually more so), and the denomination’s beliefs are still objectively false. But at least the changes might be of some benefit to POMI individuals.
Though the Norway court case focused a lot on treatment of minors, it also addressed the fact that JWs who want to leave are shunned, violating their human rights about freedom to change religion. These new changes do not address that problem at all, and instead reinforce shunning of those who don’t agree with JW teachings.
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45
consequences for going against the direction.
by jehovaxx inthere are no serious consequences for doubting the gb.
there are no consequences for going against the direction.
we can now celebrate anything.. what will happen if you take blood, celebrate xmas and birthdays ect?.
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Jeffro
Let’s see if the next court case about disfellowshipping will be like the Royal Commission… lawyer asks something like , ‘where is the actual policy?’, and some branch representative flounders about saying, ‘well… we have the letter from the branch… and… there were some Watchtowers… and… the governing body update said we were changing the process… and… and the circuit overseers told the elders this…’
🤷♂️
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45
consequences for going against the direction.
by jehovaxx inthere are no serious consequences for doubting the gb.
there are no consequences for going against the direction.
we can now celebrate anything.. what will happen if you take blood, celebrate xmas and birthdays ect?.
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Jeffro
jehovaxx:
The new direction says at the appeal of the person says they are repentant ie they are sorry and they won’t do it again that is enough. It will overturn anything else any other elders say.
You’re trying to make this all sound very certain. And maybe you’re completely right. But it was well demonstrated at the Australia Royal Commission that JW policies and how they are interpreted and enforced are much more disorganised than you suggest. Some circuit overseer’s interpretation presented second hand by anonymous person online doesn’t trump what the published material states. But time will tell.
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45
consequences for going against the direction.
by jehovaxx inthere are no serious consequences for doubting the gb.
there are no consequences for going against the direction.
we can now celebrate anything.. what will happen if you take blood, celebrate xmas and birthdays ect?.
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Jeffro
jehovaxx:
There has definitely been a change to the appeals process there is no point standing there saying there hasn’t.
Maybe there has. Fairly certain the actual appeals process isn't just "all they have to do is say they want to appeal and that they are sorry and that’s it".
The point is, as previously stated:
Slim's post doesn't even cover whatever is actually different with the appeals process, it's explicitly "reading between the lines". It just outlines that the elders might try a bit harder to get the person to say they're sorry before the decision reached by the first round of meetings. None of it indicates any actual change to the appeals process at all. And still nothing at all about whether anything is different at all if the elders decide someone has 'disassociated'.And what good is it if a circuit overseer tells elders there are some other provisions if regular members aren’t told about them?
The full information about the appeals process in the letter sent out is:
25. What if a wrongdoer gives evidence of genuine repentance only when he meets with the appeal committee? If both the original committee and the appeal committee agree that a wrongdoer is genuinely repentant when he meets with the appeal committee, he may remain in the congregation. This adjusts what is stated in the Shepherd book, chapter 17, paragraph 7, point 2. The appeal committee would meet only one time with the individual.
There is no indication of any other change to the appeals process itself at all. Still must be a written letter within 7 days per the information provided from Watch Tower. Everything else in chapter 17 of the Shepherd book about appeals is unchanged. -
45
consequences for going against the direction.
by jehovaxx inthere are no serious consequences for doubting the gb.
there are no consequences for going against the direction.
we can now celebrate anything.. what will happen if you take blood, celebrate xmas and birthdays ect?.
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Jeffro
all they have to do is say they want to appeal and that they are sorry and that’s it
This sounds like PR spin rather than an actual change. Possibly having more meetings before an initial decision that can be appealed does not actually sound like a change to the appeal process itself.
And that’s if the elders haven’t decided the person has ‘disassociated by their actions’, in which case there is no right of appeal anyway. There has been no stated change to the policy around disassociation.
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45
consequences for going against the direction.
by jehovaxx inthere are no serious consequences for doubting the gb.
there are no consequences for going against the direction.
we can now celebrate anything.. what will happen if you take blood, celebrate xmas and birthdays ect?.
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Jeffro
There used to be just one meeting and if they were not repentant that’s it DF’ed.
Well, if they were not deemed repentant by the elders. Not the same thing.
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45
consequences for going against the direction.
by jehovaxx inthere are no serious consequences for doubting the gb.
there are no consequences for going against the direction.
we can now celebrate anything.. what will happen if you take blood, celebrate xmas and birthdays ect?.
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Jeffro
If they say yes then the elders will go round and ask if they want to come back
Will they be reinstated right away? Or do they need to go through the grovelling contrition of having to attend meetings for a time while being shunned (now with brief totally not awkward greetings)?
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45
consequences for going against the direction.
by jehovaxx inthere are no serious consequences for doubting the gb.
there are no consequences for going against the direction.
we can now celebrate anything.. what will happen if you take blood, celebrate xmas and birthdays ect?.
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Jeffro
jehovaxx:
If elders ever think someone should be DF’ed there is now an appeals process
Has the appeal process changed? There has been an appeal process since at least 1980.
Even while DF’ed JWs can still talk to you.
Well, JWs can give a brief greeting if the person attends a meeting, or to invite the person to a meeting. So, only if the person shows some interests in returning. Which is still emotional manipulation if the person wants contact with their JW ‘friends’ or relatives.
And what good is it if a circuit overseer tells elders there are some other provisions if regular members aren’t told about them?
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45
consequences for going against the direction.
by jehovaxx inthere are no serious consequences for doubting the gb.
there are no consequences for going against the direction.
we can now celebrate anything.. what will happen if you take blood, celebrate xmas and birthdays ect?.
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Jeffro
It’s not clear how a regular JW is supposed to know if they are allowed 🙄 to greet a ‘disfellowshipped’ person attending a meeting. Congregation members aren’t told why the person was disfellowshipped, or if the person disassociated, or if the elders decided the person disassociated. The person could be an evil apostate (not allowed to greet) or they could have just committed the lesser sin of molesting children (allowed to greet).