Posts by Jeffro

349

The 1914 Doctrine and The Threat of the Egibi Business Tablets

by VM44 in

could the watchtower and the jehovah's witnesses survive the discarding of their 1914 doctrine?

the doctrine that in 1914 the end of the gentile times took place, jesus took up rule in heaven.

for some reason the jws think the outbreak of world war i in 1914 is proof their prophetic calculations were correct.

Jeffro

Scholar,

No, I do not believe I am opposing God but we are opposing apostates, higher critics etc who have abandoned God's Word for secular chronology.

There you go again using terms such as 'apostates' and 'higher critics' in a disparaging way, as if this somehow makes the Society right. 'Abandoned God's Word'? Hardly! The tabulated chronology of the Divided Monarchy and the Neo-Babylonian period I provided to you very specifically fits the bible, and does not conflict with a single scripture. (Still yet to see your tabulation of the Neo-Babylonian period consistent with your interpretation of the scriptures.) Many posters on this board have indicated quite clearly that the bible disproves the 607 myth.

I firmly believe that our chronology is the only chronology that has God';s blessings and is in harmony with the Bible. You have not yet responded to the twenty year gap between WT biblical chronology and the fact that the secular evidence omits no reference to Nebuchadnezzer's seven years. These two historical facts alone would falsify your chronology.

Which two historical facts? No one took over the throne in Nebuchadnezzar's place during the 7 years, so why should the chronology indicate otherwise? Not sure what the other "historical fact" is that you have referred to. Perhaps you are suggesting that the Society's missing 20 years is a "historical fact"? Hysterical, maybe. There is nothing to 'respond to' - the 20 years are an error based on a flawed interpretation of the scriptures.

349

The 1914 Doctrine and The Threat of the Egibi Business Tablets

by VM44 in

could the watchtower and the jehovah's witnesses survive the discarding of their 1914 doctrine?

the doctrine that in 1914 the end of the gentile times took place, jesus took up rule in heaven.

for some reason the jws think the outbreak of world war i in 1914 is proof their prophetic calculations were correct.

Jeffro

Whilst reading Jonsson you should read Thiele, Anstey, Hughes, Finegan and Jones.

The casual reader of the forum might infer from this statement that these sources agree with the Society's interpretations, but the rest of us know that not to be the case. This raises the question as to what, really, your motive is for saying it. Isn't the purpose of this statement simply to make it appear as though I am uninformed on the subject matter? Your condescension and veiled insults are ignored for the refuse that they are.

Because there is some disagreement among (actual) scholars whether Jerusalem's fall was in 587 or 586, you seem to believe that this justifies the Society's bizarre shift of the event back 20 years to 607 (though none of the scholars support that year), simply to prop up the 1914 dogma, while ignoring all of the additional evidence that refutes 607, including the contemporary stone tablet documentation.

349

The 1914 Doctrine and The Threat of the Egibi Business Tablets

by VM44 in

could the watchtower and the jehovah's witnesses survive the discarding of their 1914 doctrine?

the doctrine that in 1914 the end of the gentile times took place, jesus took up rule in heaven.

for some reason the jws think the outbreak of world war i in 1914 is proof their prophetic calculations were correct.

Jeffro

The problematic twenty year gap arises because of methodology and interpretation in constructing a biblical chronology. Critics of WT chronology base their methodology solely upon Neo- Babylonian chronology as chiefly represented by the Canon of Ptolemy so when a comparison is made between the two competing chronologies there remains a twenty year gap which is hardly a figment of imagination. Also, such secular evidence admits no mention of the seven years of Neb's dethronement which must falsify the widely exaggerated claims made for Neo-Babylonian schema.

Yes, the gap is indeed problematic. We can't have nasty things like 'methodology' getting in the way of the Society's 'whacky' doctrines can we? Based chiefly on Ptolemy's Canon? If that were the case, the contemporary tablets wouldn't be a problem. The 20-year gap certainly is a figment of the Society's leaders' imaginations because there is no physical evidence of the missing years despite the fact that all of the known years present evidence. It is neither secular chronology nor the bible that faces any problems, but solely the Society's faulty doctrines that introduce the erroneous 20 years.

I continue to mention the Jonsson hypothesis because its author Carl Jonsson as an apostate has produced research over many years which tries to disprove WT chronology by at least 14 so-called lines of evidence. You should read his work so that you can become informed and knowlegeable about the more meatier aspects of chronology and not remain in the kindergarten of chronology. Whilst reading Jonsson you should read Thiele, Anstey, Hughes, Finegan and Jones. Also, a list of relative journal articles on chronology can be made available if you are really interested.

It is clear in your posts that use the term 'Jonsson hypothesis' to attempt to denegrate and minimize the significance of anything that is not in harmony with the Society's flawed doctrines. 'Kindergarten of chronology' - you really are a condescending pratt aren't you! As I am gainfully employed fulltime, I don't have the available time to make this matter the chief concern in my life, but I am indeed acquainted with enough of the facts, which are in harmony with other posters on this forum who have patiently and professionally indicated how the Society hypothesis is completely baseless.

Still no complete Neo-Babylonian chronology that fits the Society's model? You're not going to break your promise are you?

349

The 1914 Doctrine and The Threat of the Egibi Business Tablets

by VM44 in

could the watchtower and the jehovah's witnesses survive the discarding of their 1914 doctrine?

the doctrine that in 1914 the end of the gentile times took place, jesus took up rule in heaven.

for some reason the jws think the outbreak of world war i in 1914 is proof their prophetic calculations were correct.

Jeffro

Scholar doesn't seem to grasp that for the 20-year gap to exist, in light of the known contemporary evidence, the same errors in reading many different tablets by many different people would have to have been made over and over again, hundreds of times. Apparently, the 'missing' tablets are like the missing transitional fossils in the fossil record referred to in the Creation book (p71); they "go missing in all the important places." The Society's method of dismissing an argument in this way, and using the same argument to support their own teachings is bizarrely infantile.

Why does 'scholar' continue to list everything he doesn't like as "Jonsson's claims" as if he invented all the information problematic to the 607 dogma. I hadn't even heard of Jonsson when I figured out that 607 is completely and utterly wrong. All this Jonsson fellow did was compile facts that were already available to the professional secular community (who were largely disinterested in the doctrines of a minor religious group). Weakly suggesting that something is invalid simply because "Jonsson claims" it is ridiculous, unscholarly, and childish.

Scholar, I am still waiting on that Neo-Babylonian chronology consistent with the Society's doctrines that you promised in return for a tabulation of the Divided Monarchy.

32

The Mother of all conspiracy theories

by Junction-Guy in

ok first of all whenever i get a strong feeling about something im usually right.

even though for years as a child i was taught the jw doctrine and it seemed to make sense biblically, at least back then.

but yet i had a strong sense of doubt, but it was nothing specific i could point the finger to, just a gut feeling that there was something wrong with the jw religion.. now here's my main point.

Jeffro

stopthepain,

ect ect ect

Maybe you meant "etc"? Although ECT is an abbreviation for 'electroconvulsive therapy' (aka shock therapy), and I can see how that could be relevant.

13

Russell got Pyramid measurements from a drawing??!!

by VM44 in

i seem to recall reading something that ct russell obtained his pyramid measurements from a drawing of a pyramid using calipers and rulers!!!!!.

now that really wouldn't give the accuracy in values required for prophetic calculations.

by taking measurements from a diagram, one could come up with any numbers one wanted in order to "massage" a calculation to give predetermined end year for a prophecy.. in one of russell's books, the pyramid dimensional measurements were "stretched" (or "shrunked" perhaps) from one edition to another in order to make the calculations come out the desired way.

Jeffro

This really is crazy stuff. Anyone with half a brain realises that a diagram on a sheet of paper simply doesn't have the resolution to resolve the exact size of the original structure. If we were to generously assume that the approximately 87m measurement of the structure was scaled down to about 17cm on paper at a scale of approx 1:500, then each millimetre on paper is equivalent to about 50cm (about 20 inches) on the actual structure. To measure the original structure to the exact inch, you would need to measure a 17cm measurement on the diagram to the nearest twentieth of a millimetre, which would very likely be smaller than the dot pitch of the diagram.

18

JW funerals getting more personable??

by Alana in

jw
friends

i went to a jw funeral wednesday.

it was for the dad of two good jw friends (at least back in the days) of mine.

he was one of the nicest men ive ever known.

Jeffro

A funeral should serve as a commemoration of the person who has died. While there is some justification in expressing what the deceased believed about what happens at death, the Society's standard approach to funeral talks cheapens the event by turning the event into a preachy sermon.

21

Did you know of anyone that appeared in the publications that left the org?

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

there was a rumour years ago that the couple that appeared on the brochure, "does god really care about us?

", left the truth, and that is why the cover changed.. also, somewhere on an xjw site, is the testimony of a brother who appeared in a life story in the wt, but has now left the organization.. do you know of anyone appearing in the mags that has left the truth?

what were the circumstances?

Jeffro

I also was in that "Young People Ask: How Can I Make True Friends?" video.

That video had to be some of the worst acting I have ever seen. If I were you, I wouldn't put it in your resumé that you were in it.

32

The Mother of all conspiracy theories

by Junction-Guy in

ok first of all whenever i get a strong feeling about something im usually right.

even though for years as a child i was taught the jw doctrine and it seemed to make sense biblically, at least back then.

but yet i had a strong sense of doubt, but it was nothing specific i could point the finger to, just a gut feeling that there was something wrong with the jw religion.. now here's my main point.

Jeffro

Junction-Guy
Possible but unlikely... humorously interesting. Though it does seem that, even given the unavoidable costs of printing and transporting their literature, they do get an awful lot of labour for free, as well as a lot of building materials paid for by the donations of the free labourors to local congregations. And then there's all of those other options the Society offers for giving money in every possible form. A search for the words "stocks and bonds" in the Watchtower libary CD reveals that every single year since 1984, every December they have the section on how to give money and assets to the Society through "contributions, gifts, conditional donations, life insurance policies, bank accounts, stocks & bonds, real estate, wills & trusts". (Christmas presents for the Society?) It seems that 1984 saw a sudden increase in the Society's need for additional revenue - either because members were dropping off or expenses suddenly jumped. The money must be going somewhere.

Dr. Elsewhere

I hope they're not going to call their moon laser a "Death Star" Muahahaha!

Zen Nudist

where are you getting that they rake in a billion a year? I am curious because there are less than 10,000,000 BORG and each one of them would have to pitch in over a $100.00 more than costs for there to be anything like that in profits...so where is this money coming from?

In addition to the above-mentioned things they request each year in the December Watchtowers, the Society has its own investments which would be raking in a great deal of revenue.

172

TESTING the results of two different ways of thinking

by Terry in

jw
friends

mankind has had a pretty good track record of tackling the problems of life on earth.

different folks have tried different strokes.

you might say that life has been the crucible for testing an idea as to efficacy and the legacy of any idea is how well it worked.. .

Jeffro

Someone said they haven't seen Terry help anyone in a crisis. I haven't seen Terry buy food either... oh my God!!! He doesn't even eat!.... OR this forum is only a corner of his life, and there may possibly be other aspects of his life, in which he may indeed perform other functions such as help people, and eat.

The Deepak Chopra fellow - some have suggested that because he is a qualified surgeon, then his mystic methods must be valid. However a hint has been provided to counter this in that proponents of his have pointed out that he has made millions of dollars selling books and so forth about his crackpot methods. It certainly sounds at though he's found a convenient cash-cow more lucrative then 'real' medicine.