Posts by Jeffro

78

Did you know that J.F. Rutherford was part of the Knights of Pythias? There's PROOF for this!

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

wow.

wow.someone just sent me a scan of the boonville advertiser newspaper in which it mentions j.f.

Jeffro

First, it was "proof"...

Did you know that J.F. Rutherford was part of the Knights of Pythias? There's PROOF for this! ... Here is the evidence: ... Edited Wikipedia to reflect this. It all fits that it was Joseph Franklin Rutherford.

Then there was some level-headed acceptance that it wasn't really 'proof' at all...

Again, I have no idea how to actually prove that this JF Rutherford was actually Joseph Franklin Rutherford. ... I am interested in finding the truth about matters. If I was wrong, then so be it.

Perhaps you would have done better to start your thread with the healthy skepticism that you eventually - albeit briefly - showed. But that again deteriorated into unsubstantiated claims that it is 'most likely' him...

It is most likely him. ... Population of Boonville, MO in 1900 was 4377 according to Wikipedia. Two J.F. Rutherfords among 4377 people? I highly doubt it. ... Same first name and middle name initial, and last name, in a small town of less than 4400 people? ... Safe to assume it's him. But now I want a "smoking gun" proof.

But there don't actually seem to be any sources whatsoever that suggest that any person named Joseph F. Rutherford was in the Knights of Pythias. None of the sources suggest "Two J.F. Rutherfords" with the "same first name". There's Joseph F. Rutherford from Missouri who moved to Pittsburgh, and John F. Rutherford from Missouri who moved to Arkansas. In future, please don't go changing Wikipedia articles until you have a "smoking gun" source that directly states what you're asserting rather than 'someone with the same initials lived in the same area and it's probably him'.

78

Did you know that J.F. Rutherford was part of the Knights of Pythias? There's PROOF for this!

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

wow.

wow.someone just sent me a scan of the boonville advertiser newspaper in which it mentions j.f.

Jeffro

slimboyfat:

This is not a court room Jeffro. When ILoveTTATT2 asked you whether you have proof it's not the JF Rutherford he was asking for your help to determine the facts, not throwing down a legal challenge. This is a discussion forum. Your approach seems misjudged for the situation.

Thanks for that little meta-analysis of the discussion. The fact remains that there is no reason to believe the J. F. Rutherford was Joseph and quite good reasons to believe it was John. Some people just 'really really want' it to be Joseph.

78

Did you know that J.F. Rutherford was part of the Knights of Pythias? There's PROOF for this!

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

wow.

wow.someone just sent me a scan of the boonville advertiser newspaper in which it mentions j.f.

Jeffro

ILoveTTATT2:

Do you have further proof that this was not Joseph Franklin Rutherford?

I see you also don't understand the concept of 'burden of proof'. I am under no obligation to affirm a negative claim. Your entire body of evidence is that a person with the same initials was a member of Knights of Pythias and your burning desire for Joseph Franklin Rutherford to have spent his earlier years in association with some 'secret order' (which ultimately has no bearing on anything anyway since it doesn't imply any ongoing agreement or affiliation).

Yet we know there was in fact a John F. Rutherford who was originally from Missouri and who we know was in the Knights of Pythias and was president of a lumber company with many members who were also members of the Knights of Pythias.

Added to this is the fact that although Joseph F. Rutherford is stated in some sources to be from Boonville, official records actually say that he was from Versaille, Missouri. Hence it is quite possible that some sources have previously conflated John F. Rutherford with the early history of Joseph F. Rutherford; though despite your incredulity, it would not be at all remarkable for there to be two J. F. Rutherfords in the same town.

78

Did you know that J.F. Rutherford was part of the Knights of Pythias? There's PROOF for this!

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

wow.

wow.someone just sent me a scan of the boonville advertiser newspaper in which it mentions j.f.

Jeffro

ILoveTTATT2:

It is most likely him.

No, you want it to be him. For someone who supposedly 'loves truth', you're not really that interested in actual truth. There is a J. (John) F. Rutherford who was from Missouri and was later in Arkansas who was president of the Bluff City Lumber Company and that company has many Knights Pythias members, and many of those are also Woodmen members, which is also obviously associated with Lumber. But you want it to be Joseph Franklin Rutherford, and that is essentially the limit of your 'research'. Your threshold for 'truth' is appalling.

Arkansas is one thing, and Boonville, Missouri, is another.

But they're two different places in two different states!

Ha ha. John F. Rutherford was in Arkansas around 1910, when he was president of the Lumber company. Joseph F. Rutherford was in Pittsburgh at the same time. Neither were in Missouri then. Hence your assertion that "they're two different places in two different states" is completely irrelevant and your apparent excitement that Boonville is not in Arkansas is quite odd.

Same first name and middle name initial, and last name, in a small town of less than 4400 people? Safe to assume it's him. But now I want a "smoking gun" proof.

No. Blatant dishonesty. Joseph and John are entirely different first names.

78

Did you know that J.F. Rutherford was part of the Knights of Pythias? There's PROOF for this!

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

wow.

wow.someone just sent me a scan of the boonville advertiser newspaper in which it mentions j.f.

Jeffro

P.S. The person in question was John F. Rutherford.

Arkansas Democrat, Wednesday, June 9, 1909, Page 2

The largest financial transaction ever recorded here has just been made by John F. Rutherford, president of the Bluff City Lumber Company and recognized as one of the leading financiers of the State.

Jefferson County Archives:

[David Henry Duncan] came to Arkansas twenty years ago, and engaged in the lumber business, and for the past twelve years was identified with John F. Rutherford of the Bluff City Lumber Company. ... [Duncan] was a thirty-second degree Mason, belonging to the Consistory of New Orleans; also a member of Jerusalem Temple of the Mystic Shrine of New Orleans, and a member of the following orders: Knights of Pythias, Knights of Honor and Woodmen of the World.

Please do some research beyond 'someone has the same initials' in future.

78

Did you know that J.F. Rutherford was part of the Knights of Pythias? There's PROOF for this!

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

wow.

wow.someone just sent me a scan of the boonville advertiser newspaper in which it mentions j.f.

Jeffro

Sorry kids, but although a J.F. Rutherford was in the Knights of Pythias, there's no indication it was Joseph Franklin Rutherford. A little digging shows that the Knights of Pythias had lots of connections with the Bluff City Lumber Company (Arkansas), of which a J.F. Rutherford was the president (in 1909, when Joseph was at the Watch Tower Society in Pittsburgh).

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=%22Knights+of+Pythias%22+%22Bluff+City+Lumber+Company%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-ab&gfe_rd=cr&ei=DqKhWLmnJKjr8AffyJjgCg#q=%22Knights+of+Pythias%22+%22Bluff+City+Lumber+Company%22&tbs=li:1

https://www.google.com.au/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=gqKhWNK3D7Lr8AeSvoewDQ&gws_rd=ssl#q=%22J.F.+Rutherford%22+%22Bluff+City+Lumber+Company%22

80

The Fundamental difference between Islam and Christianity

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

ever since i came out of the witnesses, i've become very political.. i've heard lots of arguments back and forth for many things.. in the u.s. there is the argument that it is "racist" to want to deny entry to muslims.

while there is freedom of religion, there is also the very valid concern of maintaining democracy and a justice system that is based on modern values.we as exjw's constantly quote the pew center for statistics on jw's such as: they are last place in the us for members of a religion that go to university, and second-last for poverty levels of members of a religion.

we accept those statistics and mention them as proof of how damaging the jw's are.now, let's use the same center for some very scary statistics on islam:http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/22/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/.

Jeffro

The Fundamental difference between Islam and Christianity

Islam's holy book doesn't command stoning. (Even though it has a lot of other bad things in it.)

Edit: Hmmm... I didn't actually read the first post before typing when I saw the title... apparently I was right.

61

Or was it Designed???

by Slidin Fast in

awake!

1 2017 says on its back page.

the saharan silver ant (cataglyphis bombycina) is one of the most heat-tolerant land animals known.

Jeffro

Perry:

According to the bible's explanation,

"explanation". ha ha ha ha ha ha... anyway...

the present features we observe in animals that are used for hunting, and defense were not originally used for that purpose. Alternatively, God could have brought in some features we observe as a result of the Fall and the curse upon creation.

Entirely made-up nonsense.

In any case, biblical creationists such as JWs are stuck with the problem that they implicitly require that an evolutionary process happened - orders of magnitude faster than what actually occurred in reality (several billion years, which they deny) - after the supposed 'flood' (supposedly around 4000 years ago), an event that was apparently only survived by a relatively limited number of undefined 'kinds' into the wealth of diversity today, while at the same time asserting that specific traits of individual species that couldn't possibly have all fit on the imaginary 'ark' 'must' have been specifically 'created' by their preferred deity. Cognitive dissonance at its best (or worst depending on the context).

61

Or was it Designed???

by Slidin Fast in

awake!

1 2017 says on its back page.

the saharan silver ant (cataglyphis bombycina) is one of the most heat-tolerant land animals known.

Jeffro

Every time JW publications try this tactic of saying some particular species has some 'amazing' trait that 'must' have been 'designed', they demonstrate how dishonest they are.

If this particular species of ant had to be 'designed' to withstand high temperatures, it would mean this specific species - and by extension all species - would need to be 'preserved' on the fairy-tale 'ark' rather than there only needing to be a few 'kinds' (a vacuous term with no taxonomic meaning).

In addition, they implicitly assert that their 'loving' god deliberately 'designed' all manner of 'cruel' things in the natural world, such as parasites, viruses, etc.

Back in reality, it is observable that species gradually adapt and become more diverse over time based on their suitability for their environment without requiring a 'designer'.

13

AUST: QLD Cairns Post - Tablelands police charge former JW with offences against children

by darkspilver in

i believe this has appeared into today's edition of the cairns post print newspaper (saturday 4 february 2017) at the top of page 4 under the headline: "indecent charges for man" - the actual text of the article is apparently the same as the online version below:.

cairns post - saturday 4 february 2017. tablelands police charge former jehovah’s witness with offences against children.

an elderly tablelands man and former jehovah’s witness member will appear in court this month amid allegations he molested three young girls from the church more than 25 years ago.

Jeffro

gerry:

You are right the article is not the same as the BCG case.
I believe Angus was questioning Ron de Rooy about another case not related to BCG that happened in the Mareeba congregation.
watch the video again my understanding is that Angus is not talking about BCG's father. Ron de Rooy says he vaguely remembers dealing with this person.

Sorry, yes I realised after I posted that you were talking about a different case that was mentioned as an aside. I was only going from memory of watching the videos months ago when I initially replied.