wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
‘scholar’:
The rest of Daniel refers to historical events in the 6th century continuing right up to our day.
Hahahaha. No. Everything in Daniel 11 and12 can be readily associated with events up until the Seleucid period (apart from the exaggerated claims about a hypothetical future that aren’t real at all). It has nothing at all to do with “our day”. Good luck proving otherwise. 😂
wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
‘scholar’:
Identifiable datable events confirm the date of composition unless plainly stated otherwise for that then becomes history.
This is some of the most plainly stupid reasoning you could utter. I could write something right now that makes reference to past events and no current events, and by your reasoning, it would have to be concluded that it was written at the time of the events mentioned.
wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
‘scholar’:
I note your reference to your website and the pages discussing Daniel however you make the claim that Daniel is of the 2nd century BC rather than of the sixth century century but you do not provide any evidence for your late date of composition so please list your facts.keeping in mind that that Daniel in his 11th chapter only is applicable to the Seleucids.I await your evidence or proof.
You already answered your own question. 😂 “Daniel [refers] to the Seleucids … with the dramatic conflict between the 'kings of the north and the 'king of the south' in Dan.11:5-19”
Also, the page you reference acknowledges that some parts of Daniel include elements from older folktales.
Whilst all the chapters of Daniel allude to the Syrian oppression under Antiochus IV Epiphanes with Babylon used as an allegory, chapters 2 and 7 to 12 make obvious references to rulers up to the Seleucid period.
The sad fact is that you actually agree that there are references to the Seleucid period (and, erroneously, beyond) throughout Daniel, but your ‘explanation’ is that Daniel was magical.
wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
‘scholar’:
The six datable events anchor the entire book in the 6th century BC for any other claim is simply nonsense.
Identifying datable events in a work only confirms that the work was written some time later than those events. And because Daniel has obvious references to events during the Seleucid period (as is explicitly accepted in JW dogma), the time of writing is thereby identified as being around 164 BCE. Setting aside the exaggerated end times claims about a hypothetical future, there are no details in Daniel requiring knowledge beyond around 164 BCE. (Daniel was in circulation by the end of that century so writing couldn’t have been much later than 164 BCE either.)
Christian re-interpretations that some of the elements refer to the Roman Empire, to Jesus, or to the modern era are incorrect and all the elements in Daniel can be identified with events up to the 2nd century BCE.
wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
Disillusioned JW:
Jeffro scholar presumes that the writer of the book of Daniel is sincere in everything he wrote in the book of Daniel (and not writing a story intended to be thought of as fiction to some extent). scholar presumes that all of the books of the Bible are honestly written. Likewise the WTS claims that all of the books of the Bible are honestly written; after all they claim that all of the books of the Bible are Jehovah God's word.
Uh… yeah… quite aware of his position. I generally consider him too far gone as a Watch Tower Society shill to get through to him, but I point out his obvious errors for the benefit of other readers (and for my own amusement).
But even to the extent that he claims to accept what the Bible says, JW dogma trumps the Bible where required. For example the Bible’s stated order of events is that the 70 years end, then the Jews repent, then attention is given to their return (Jeremiah 29:10-14), but ‘scholar’, parroting the Watch Tower Society, insists that 70 years ends only one they’ve arrived home, making it redundant to then ‘give attention to their return’.
wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
‘scholar’:
By your reasoning the opening words o Dan 1:1 clearly identify a 6th century BC historical setting
Huh?! Have you totally lost the plot? Your claim isn’t at all supported by ‘my reasoning’. The opening words of Daniel identity a setting, but there’s nothing about the statement that confirms when it was actually written. You don’t understand that a later writer could have access to historical details of an earlier period? What is wrong with you?
wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
‘scholar’:
How then can it be verified then that Daniel was written in the 2nd century BC and who its writer was especially as Dan.1::1 clearly assigns a 6th-century date for its composition and Dan.12:4 clearly states its writer, Daniel? and how can it be verified that the book ha in its 12 chapters in total has anything to do with Jewish persecution and events in the time of the Maccabees?
And the author of Moby Dick is identified as Ishmael in the opening sentence. Guess that clinches it. 😂 Also, by your ‘reasoning’ the author of Daniel chapter 4 is “clearly” Nebuchadnezzar, not Daniel. 🤦♂️
People who understand and respect context can figure it out and have done so for centuries, including modern scholars, and just as I was able to do in my own independent analysis. I understand why you have difficulty with the concept though.
wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
‘scholar’:
If Daniel was not a prophet and Daniel was simply a historical account of Jewish oppression of the 2nd century then why did Jesus refer to Daniel as a prophet and make reference to a future fulfilment as prophecy pertaining to Jerusalem?
There’s no evidence Jesus said anything of the sort. Words attributed to Jesus in the anonymous ‘gospels’ written decades after his death are unverifiable, and in any case is a fallacious appeal to authority. Aside from that, those works mention Daniel because the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians is used as an allegory for the destruction by the Romans, just as it was used as an allegory in Daniel for Syrian oppression.
wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
‘scholar’:
So if the tree dream in Dan.4 is not historical and if it the book of Daniel is of the 2nd century BC presented as history then why was such such a tree dream included in the book?
The story about Nebuchadnezzar going mad borrows elements from a Babylonian story of Nabonidus. But the reference to ‘seven times’ is likely also a reference to the ‘seven sabbaths’ (49 years) from Jerusalem’s destruction in 587 BCE until the Jews returned in 538 BCE. In the context of Daniel’s main theme, that period of Jewish oppression and restoration is analogous to the ban of Jewish worship in 168 BCE until its restoration in 165 BCE.
