Posts by Jeffro

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jeffro

Disillusioned JW:

That is because I didn't know the precise time period when the Jews were looking for the Messiah based upon calculations of Daniel (assuming the WT's claim was correct), and because I also didn't remember for certain the precise year (whether calculated by the WT or by various non-JW scholars - and scholars disagree as to what year Jesus began his ministry) began. It doesn't matter to me if the year was 26 C.E. or 30 CE.

There is no evidence that anyone in the early first century was using Daniel to calculate the arrival of the messiah in 26, 29, 30 or any similar year. The early ‘church fathers’ didn’t even suggest such a thing until the late second century. (Did you read the article I linked a few days ago?)

Insufficient time right now for full details but 30 (or 29) is insisted by some religious people because of the tradition that he was born closer to ‘0AD’ and also because of Christian interpretations of the ‘70 weeks’.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jeffro

Disillusioned JW:

I am an atheist (and thus I believe there is no such thing as divine inspiration) and as a result of my research I lean towards the belief that the book of Daniel was written in the 2nd century B.C.E (about the year 164 B.C.E.), but I am not certain it was written then. Furthermore, I think that the second kingdom referred to in Daniel chapter two is Media-Persia instead of Media; that the third kingdom referred to is Greece (and its subsequent break up, in stages, into the the Ptolemaic and Seleucid kingdoms) instead of Persia; and that the fourth kingdom is Rome (whether in the form of the Republic of Rome, the Roman Empire, or a combination of both).

The ‘silver’ kingdom is actually much more likely… Babylon. Daniel explicitly says the ‘gold’ kingdom is not simply Babylon, but specifically Nebuchadnezzar, and that the kingdom after him would be inferior. The ‘copper’ kingdom is Persia (only religious people say Medo-Persia and Media-Persia is only slightly better). Then Greece (‘iron’), then the divided kingdoms including the Seleucids and Ptolemies (‘clay/iron’). Even if it were possible, there is no reason the author of Daniel would refer to the fall of the ‘Roman empire’ that didn’t even exist yet, which is a religious superstition only, especially Daniel 11 is very clearly all about events only up until Antiochus Epiphanies IV.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jeffro

‘scholar’:

The unnamed deity has a name and His name is Jehovah.

(Tedious capitalisation of pronoun included 🤣.) Happy to list that between assumptions 8 and 9 for things you should definitively prove, though it is not a necessary assumption for your conclusions about the writing of Daniel, so you’re just making more work for yourself.. Get cracking on that list. 😂

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jeffro

'scholar':

Well if your opinion is truly based on your own independent research then you should be able to provide definitive reasons for your opinion as so far you have failed to do.

Ho hum...

Following is the list of assumptions I accept for my interpretations of Daniel:

Books that accurately describe details of past events were written after those events
Daniel includes information that accurately describe events during the Seleucid period

Following is the list of assumptions 'scholar' accepts for his interpretations of Daniel:

The universe had a cause
The universe was caused by a conscious entity
The entity was a deity
The deity still exists (or at least continued to exist until the Neo-Babylonian period)
The deity has some interest in the universe
The deity has some interest in humans
The deity interacts in some way with humans
The deity is the God of the Abrahamic religions
God imparts prophecies
The book of Daniel contains prophecies imparted by God about future kingdoms (after the time of writing)
Jehovah’s Witnesses’ interpretations of Daniel are correct, except where their own previous interpretations have been discarded, which were also correct until they weren't

Once 'scholar' provides definitive proof (not fallacious appeals to tradition, incredulity or sentiment) for his list, I'll clear up any contested assumptions in my list. 🤣 For the sake of argument, I might be willing to grant point 1 in the list for 'scholar' even without definitive proof.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jeffro

I’ve sufficiently shown readers that you are wrong and am not interested in pandering to your irrelevant demands.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jeffro

🤦‍♂️

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jeffro

‘scholar’:

The problem that you have is proving that Daniel was of late composition.

😂 My analysis of Daniel is consistent with the best scholarship. A deluded Watch Tower Society shill disagreeing with me in the Internet is hardly a ‘problem’ for me.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jeffro

‘scholar’:

It is just a typo. Nothing has changed as my comment remains sound

No, doofus. Despite your attempt to just focus on the incidental typo, the WT book explicitly says the copper kingdom includes the Seleucid period right up until 30 BCE 🤦‍♂️

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jeffro

There is absolutely nothing in Daniel to support a 2nd-century composition

Only if you pretend that the obvious references to the Seleucid period are magical 🤦‍♂️

WT scholarship along with SDA scholarship.

I hope you don’t think that’s a coincidence 😂 Adventist groups have Adventist beliefs. Wow. Amazing. 😂

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jeffro

'scholar':

WT scholarship

🤣

Dan.2::23,29 refers to the Grecian World Power and not to the Seleucid Kingdom according to WT scholarship. The duration from 331 BCE to 30 BCE and in its latter days was divided up into four kingdoms which included the Seleucid Kingdom.

Ha ha. You can't even get your own beliefs right (setting aside the fact that Daniel 2:23, 29 are the wrong verses as well, but I provided the right ones, 32 & 39). Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy, pages 54-55:

The copperlike world power continued only until 30 B.C.E. when the last of these four kingdoms—the Ptolemaic dynasty ruling in Egypt—finally fell to Rome.

Similarly, the Seleucid period is indeed included in the JW interpretations of the corresponding elements in chapter 7 & 8.

Your claim that vss. 33; 41-43 covers the period from Alexander to Antiochus IV is your opinion based on no evidence

Whilst I did indeed independently arrive at the correct time period for these verses, it is also the mainstream scholarly consensus, so claiming it is just ‘my opinion’ is irrelevant and misleading ad hominem.