Posts by Jeffro

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Because of its doctrinal bias, the New World Translation is careful to dogmatically translate the 24 instances of the noun parousia (Strong’s G3952, presence or arrival) in the New Testament as ‘presence’ (23 times) or ‘present’ (once, but also as ‘presence’ in the original NWT). But it is less careful with the related verb pareimi (Strong’s G3918, to be present or to come) found 23 times in the New Testament:

16 instances as present (Matthew 26:50; Luke 13:1; Acts 10:33; Acts 17:6; Acts 24:19; 1 Corinthians 5:3; 2 Corinthians 10:2; 2 Corinthians 10:11; 2 Corinthians 11:9; 2 Corinthians 13:2; 2 Corinthians 13:10; Galatians 4:18; Galatians 4:20; Hebrews 12:11; Hebrews 13:5; 2 Peter 1:12), all also as present in the old NWT
2 instances as here (John 11:28; Acts 10:21), but both as present in the old NWT
1 instance as arrived (John 7:6), but as present in the old NWT
1 instance as came (Acts 12:20), also as came in the old NWT
1 instance as with (1 Corinthians 5:3), but as present in the old NWT
1 instance as has come (Colossians 1:6), but as has presented in the old NWT
1 instance as lacking (2 Peter 1:9, negated by combination with Greek mē, Strong’s G3361), but as [not] present in the old NWT

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jeffro

Cognitive dissonance prevents them from understanding it. They don’t care about things like valid structure of analogies. They need to get past their existing indoctrination first because their true reason for maintaining JW beliefs is emotional rather than logical.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jeffro

The order of imagined events is already plainly indicated by verses 29 and 30, but verse 39 also clearly likens the coming of the flood itself to the ‘parousia’ rather than an extended period leading up to it.

In the analogy, the period of time Christians would be living in is likened to the time before the flood, and the parousia is likened to the flood itself. The JW interpretations breaks the analogy, asserting that the time they would be living in is the parousia itself, leaving the coming of the flood left hanging without any corresponding element of the analogy. It is a plainly flawed interpretation.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jeffro

Fisherman:

Disagree

Compelling argument you have there 🤦‍♂️

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jeffro

Yeah, ignore the direct order of events explicitly stated about coming after the tribulation and provide a more abstruse passage and an entirely different passage about someone else. 🤦‍♂️

First century Christians expected Jesus to return within a generation of his death. Their expectations failed and they’ve been making up alternative explanations ever since.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jeffro

🤦‍♂️
Matthew 24:21, 26–27, 29–30: for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. ... 26 Therefore, if people say to you, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; ‘Look! He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For just as the lightning comes out of the east and shines over to the west, so the presence of the Son of man will be. ... 29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Mark 13:19, 24–26: for those days will be days of a tribulation such as has not occurred from the beginning of the creation that God created until that time, and will not occur again. ... 24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, 25 and the stars will be falling out of heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken. 26 And then they will see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jeffro

You’re misconstruing how the ‘parousia’ (which explicitly follows the ‘great tribulation’) would be analogous to ‘the days of Noah’, and the selection of 1914 is based on entirely false premises anyway.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jeffro

Disillusioned JW:

Jeffro regarding your advice to me that I "... should consider carefully the scholarship of Jehovah's Witnesses by means of their publication",

Haha. I think you have incorrectly attributed someone else’s comment to me. 🤣

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jeffro

Disillusioned JW:

That is because I didn't know the precise time period when the Jews were looking for the Messiah based upon calculations of Daniel (assuming the WT's claim was correct), and because I also didn't remember for certain the precise year (whether calculated by the WT or by various non-JW scholars - and scholars disagree as to what year Jesus began his ministry) began. It doesn't matter to me if the year was 26 C.E. or 30 CE.

There is no evidence that anyone in the early first century was using Daniel to calculate the arrival of the messiah in 26, 29, 30 or any similar year. The early ‘church fathers’ didn’t even suggest such a thing until the late second century. (Did you read the article I linked a few days ago?)

Insufficient time right now for full details but 30 (or 29) is insisted by some religious people because of the tradition that he was born closer to ‘0AD’ and also because of Christian interpretations of the ‘70 weeks’.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jeffro

Disillusioned JW:

I am an atheist (and thus I believe there is no such thing as divine inspiration) and as a result of my research I lean towards the belief that the book of Daniel was written in the 2nd century B.C.E (about the year 164 B.C.E.), but I am not certain it was written then. Furthermore, I think that the second kingdom referred to in Daniel chapter two is Media-Persia instead of Media; that the third kingdom referred to is Greece (and its subsequent break up, in stages, into the the Ptolemaic and Seleucid kingdoms) instead of Persia; and that the fourth kingdom is Rome (whether in the form of the Republic of Rome, the Roman Empire, or a combination of both).

The ‘silver’ kingdom is actually much more likely… Babylon. Daniel explicitly says the ‘gold’ kingdom is not simply Babylon, but specifically Nebuchadnezzar, and that the kingdom after him would be inferior. The ‘copper’ kingdom is Persia (only religious people say Medo-Persia and Media-Persia is only slightly better). Then Greece (‘iron’), then the divided kingdoms including the Seleucids and Ptolemies (‘clay/iron’). Even if it were possible, there is no reason the author of Daniel would refer to the fall of the ‘Roman empire’ that didn’t even exist yet, which is a religious superstition only, especially Daniel 11 is very clearly all about events only up until Antiochus Epiphanies IV.