Jeffro

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Posts by Jeffro

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  15

  The infinite loop of resurrection

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. social
  2. humour

  scene: the new world, any minute now.... billy bastard, an aborted fetus is resurrected and immediately dies because he is outside the womb of a birthing person.. repeat ad infinitum.

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  Jeffro

  If only there were a more convenient word that suitably describes more than 99% of people with wombs… 🤔
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  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

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  Jeffro

  I suppose it’s fun to muse about such ideas, but it’s just that it doesn’t meet any standard of evidence. Proof would require a verifiable record with specific non-trivial details in advance of the events along with a method of verification that the events actually occurred as described (not possible over this forum). But even if you could establish that you can reliably predict near future events at a rate better than chance taking into account educated guesses, that still wouldn’t prove whether the explanation is block universe or messages from god or that you’re just really intuitive.
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  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

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  Jeffro

  I should add that neither of the ‘predictions’ are particularly amazing. A person on skates might fall over. A police car might pass a bus. Certainly not anything that would qualify as reliable evidence of ESP or anything similar. (Now, if it were that you were sitting at home and envisioned a skater falling over and later went somewhere where there was not a reasonable expectation of seeing skaters, but nevertheless saw a skater fall over, that might be somewhat more impressive though still not conclusive.) None of what is described sounds any better than guessing, and there is no evidence of any experimental controls at all nor any method of verification.
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  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

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  Jeffro

  Did you make a record prior to these incidents of what you predicted would happen? Or did you leave it open to retrofitting events as needed?
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

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  Jeffro

  Disillusioned JW:

  Since you now saying you are not interested in persuading people to adopt your views

  To say I have no interest in persuading people is incorrect, but I am more interested in people improving how they think, and to do so without fallacious reasoning or just accepting traditions. I have examined every relevant part of the Bible regarding JW claims about 607 and 1914, from scratch. I have compiled much of that information at http://jeffro77.wordpress.com. In that process, I intentionally did not refer to how other sources interpret the relevant verses, instead only using the Bible and then afterwards, considering encyclopaedias regarding historical events, and only after that seeing how other matters fit in. The advantage is that people like ‘scholar’ cannot say (that is, when they try to, they are lying) that I have simply copied ‘worldly’ or ‘apostate’ sources. The downside is that I don’t have a long list of what scholars say in depth on the subject, because it has not been necessary for me. I present that information to demonstrate that what the Bible directly states can readily be shown not to support JW interpretations (and by extension the views of various other groups), and that discovering such information doesn’t require fallacious appeals to authority. But I do not expect anyone to blindly accept what I or anyone else says. Instead, I would encourage people to consider what I’ve said and verify it for themselves, including pointing out errors.

  Based upon the idea, last night I did two experiments in which I tried to call to mind what I know (in the sense of present self learning what my future self knows what is happening at his time) will happen in the immediate future. I tried call to mind ('remember'/'member'?) my future observations in the same way I call to mind (remember) my past observations. To my astonishment I very soon experienced both events happening, though certain particulars were reversed. I was stunned. Experiences like those outcomes of my two experiments, as well as some other experiences, make me think that I might have some latent ESP ability.
  

  Is this meant to be in some way compelling? Thinking about things you might do in your typical environment and routine and finding that you correctly ‘predicted’ some of those things a short time later is banal. It sounds indistinguishable from imagination and guessing. (Depending on how immediate, you could also be referring to déjà vu, which is basically a misfiring of the order in which immediate and short time memory formation is consciously recognised, but also sometimes just a colloquial term for events being similar enough to previous experiences.) What were your controls for this is experiment? What was your threshold for considering an event similar enough? Is any of it verifiable? (These are not questions for you to answer here, but examples of what you should think about in considering the validity of your experiment.)
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  20

  NWT Revisions

  by Jeffro in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  there is mention on a wikipedia article that there was a 2006 revision of the nwt.

  is this true?

  what differences are there?

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  Jeffro

  I suppose that's fair. If this forum is the only source of information where I would have been able to find that out. Lucky you were here 16 years later to help out. I've been checking the thread daily. Thanks. 🙄
  
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  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
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• 

  Jeffro

  Disillusioned JW:

  I notice that multiple times he said the same assertion, in an apparent effort to convince readers of the assertion, yet has provided little reasoning and little evidence in support of his oft repeated assertion.

  I don’t know why you expect me to provide you with all the answers. I’m not here to spoon feed people nor to garner followers, nor to keep repeating information that has been posted on here for years. I have already linked to information about the book of Daniel in this thread, and the mainstream view also isn’t some national secret, yet you seem more focused on Christian commentaries as your source. Perhaps try Wikipedia as a starting point to find citations to scholarly sources.

  If you are willing to defer to supernatural ‘explanations’ for the author of Daniel supposedly having access to future events, it is preposterous that you would expect detailed evidence from me for ‘daring’ to suggest the plainly reasonable conclusion that the author of Daniel wrote about things that had already happened but used a setting of the Neo-Babylonian period as a metaphor for events up to and including the Seleucid period.

  Your ‘reasoning’ is a bit like when creationists expect nonbelievers to explain exactly how life originated rather than just offering possibilities, and then counter with completely unverifiable superstitious claims as their alternative ‘explanation’.
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

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  Jeffro

  ‘scholar’:

  So now you have finally revealed the truth of the matter in that rather than your opinion that Daniel was not a prophetic work of the 6th century BCE but of the 2nd century BC is based not on your personal research but on mainstream scholarly consensus

  No, liar. That is explicitly the opposite of what I said. I said “My own independent analysis”, adding that it is “in agreement with” the mainstream view. Are you dishonest or just stupid?

  You appeal to rationality yet you ignore the obvious two facts that Daniel in its entirety provides nine chronological data that establishes the time when Daniel received the visions described by him.

  I distinctly remember someone saying something similar to me in 1521. I know, I’m not old enough for that to be true, but it’s right here in black and white so I guess it’s undeniable. 🤣

  Rolf Furuli

  hahahahahaha

  leading SDA scholars

  Hahahahaha

  More noteworthy however are the two WT publications on Daniel

  Hahahahaha 😂🤣
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  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
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• 

  Jeffro

  Disillusioned JW:

  Since I am an atheist, I don't believe that the book of Daniel is a prophecy in the since of being inspired by God. … The writer of the book might … even one with some 'psychic'/ESP powers to foresee the future.

  This is simply substituting one irrational belief for another.

  If you wish to convince me and others 100% that Daniel refers to the Seleucid period

  I’m not particularly interested in trying to convince people who don’t approach things rationally. If you want believe that the author of Daniel had magical powers to predict the future, go right ahead. I’ll stick to what I’ve found not only by my own independent analysis but also in agreement with the mainstream scholarly consensus on the matter.
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  48

  "Jehovah God"

  by Jeffro in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  the expression "jehovah god" has always seemed strange to me.

  even when i was a jw, i found the term awkward, and never used it myself.

  both words are nouns intended to be synonyms of each other, unless the name "jehovah" is being used as an adjective, which is also weird.

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  Jeffro

  How many 16 year old threads are you planning to dredge up?