Posts by Jeffro

89

Myth of 1914

by peacefulpete in

the wt engages in history revisionism when insisting the world changed overnight in 1914. in fact the european power struggles that came to a head were centuries old.

millions of lives had been lost in the wars of the 19th century, with the world a powder keg the years prior to the assassination of franz ferdinand in june 1914 which is often said, albeit rather arbitrarily, as the start of the war that escalated over the next 4 years into the great war.

take a look at these two pages and ask if the wt's interpretation of history seems accurate to you.

Jeffro

Actually, it was 1933… The Watchtower, 1 December 1933, page 362:

The year 1914, therefore, marks the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, the King of glory.

(This was already correctly indicated on the Jehovah’s Witnesses and 1914 page but got missed in the Pure Worship review, which has been fixed.)

89

Myth of 1914

by peacefulpete in

the wt engages in history revisionism when insisting the world changed overnight in 1914. in fact the european power struggles that came to a head were centuries old.

millions of lives had been lost in the wars of the 19th century, with the world a powder keg the years prior to the assassination of franz ferdinand in june 1914 which is often said, albeit rather arbitrarily, as the start of the war that escalated over the next 4 years into the great war.

take a look at these two pages and ask if the wt's interpretation of history seems accurate to you.

Jeffro

Beth Sarim:

Most JW's don't realize that up until after Rutherfords death in 1942, Christ's invisible parousia did NOT occur until 1914, that switch happened 2 years after the Judge's death in 1944.

I'm not sure where this claim comes from that the 'parousia' was only changed to 1914 in 1944. On my website, I have given the year of the change as 1935 (though I'm happy to correct this if someone knows of it being stated earlier).

The Golden Age, 10 April 1935, page 432:

Because it is the reign of Christ Jesus that constitutes the Second Presence or Parousia, it would seem to be not improper to say that the Second Advent occurred on Lifeday, King 10, Edenic day No. 2170097, Y.R. 1882 (Thursday, October 1, A.D. 1914), under moon No. 73486.

It was again stated in 1940 before Rutherford's death. The Watchtower, 1 October 1940, page 294:

At the time of the coming of the Lord Jesus as King in 1914 all the religious organizations called ''Christendom" rejected Christ as King and insisted on the world's being ruled by selfish men.

The Truth Shall Make You Free (1943), page 324:

The King’s presence or parousia began in 1914, and then his appearing or epiphaneia at the temple came in 1918.

By 1943, '1874' was already 'the chronology' of 'the evil slave'. The Watchtower, 15 July 1943, page 217:

"That evil servant" means a class of men and women once servants of Jehovah God and associated with his visible organization. They once devoted themselves to God in consecration and were begotten of his spirit and taken into his household as spiritual sons and were for a time apparently faithful. But they do not endure to the end in God's service, and turn evil. At the time that the Lord begins judgment at the temple their evil conduct is exposed. So they manifest themselves from and after 1918. Their trouble begins with the heart, the seat of affection and motivation. (Prov. 4: 23) In the heart this class says: "My lord delayeth his coming." True, this class may claim to believe in Christ's invisible presence and that his presence, or parousia, began at 1874 according to their understanding of chronology.

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

Jeffro

Fisherman:

No hard evidence could convince the Jews that Jesus is the Messiah. They didn’t want it.

No evidence exists that Jesus was the messiah. That aside, even the Watch Tower Society says the entirely arbitrary claim of being ‘anointed’ can be based on mental or emotional imbalance. Hardly a reliable qualification. 😂

89

Myth of 1914

by peacefulpete in

the wt engages in history revisionism when insisting the world changed overnight in 1914. in fact the european power struggles that came to a head were centuries old.

millions of lives had been lost in the wars of the 19th century, with the world a powder keg the years prior to the assassination of franz ferdinand in june 1914 which is often said, albeit rather arbitrarily, as the start of the war that escalated over the next 4 years into the great war.

take a look at these two pages and ask if the wt's interpretation of history seems accurate to you.

Jeffro

What the Watch Tower Society said about 1914 before the war is indeed very different to what they say now. For more information see here and here.

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

Jeffro

🤣

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

Jeffro

'scholar':

The attention given to the Exiles was their release from Exile by an official decree, returning home on time thus fulfilling the 70 years as prophesied and described in detail by the Chronicler.

Entirely invalid response (and there actually wasn't any special decree just for the Jews, Cyrus just had a general policy of allowing conquered people to follow their religious beliefs in order to quell civil unrest). Giving attention to their return before the end of the 70 years directly contradicts the direct statement at Jeremiah 29:10. But thanks for confirming once again that JWs don't really care what the Bible actually says when it disagrees with Watch Tower Society doctrine.

Just use your plain common sense and just read the text that is if you believe the text

It is not necessary to believe a text is true in order to assess what it says. However, the descriptions in Jeremiah of 70 years as a period during which the nations were subject to Babylon does nicely fit the period from the fall of Assyria in 609 BCE until the fall of Babylon in 539 BCE. And Jeremiah's further description of attention being given to the Jews' return after Babylon's 70 years also nicely fits the fact that some of the Jews returned to Jerusalem in 538 BCE after Persia began to reign and began work on the temple foundations in Cyrus' second year, 537 BCE.

or even the whole Bible for you have already discarded Daniel to the trash can.

Fallacy of composition.

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

Jeffro

'scholar':

any chronology for the Return must fully account for these factors and shows that to cram all of these in one year - 538 BCE is impossible

Gotta love JW 'logic'...

40 years of Egyptian exile to Babylon with no historical traces whatsoever... 'Bible says it would happen so it must have happened'...
20 year 'gap' in JW chronology with no records in all Babylonian and Egyptian records despite continuous records for every year of the known history including all the transitions between kings... 'all the records must be wrong or misinterpreted'...

But some people making a 4-month trip in a 6-month period? 'Impossible' says the non-scholar. 🤣

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

Jeffro

‘scholar’:

I will and can answer this question. I suspect that this is the direction that Bruce X is going so will leave it to him.

And the big ‘reveal’ once he got around to it;

Its a prophecy, Boofhead

Well that was worth the wait. 😂 Pathetic. Despite the moronic attempt to say it was all just in the future, it is not at all consistent with the directly stated order of events: Babylon’s 70 years end, and then attention is given to the Jews’ return.

Still waiting for a valid answer. If 70 years ended when the Jews arrived in Jerusalem, in what way was attention subsequently given to their return?

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

Jeffro

BruceX

So the moment, the day they arrived in Juda, the 70 years were fulfilled. But the sentence uses the words "will" after the fulfullment, pointing to a future return. So when they arrived in Juda God sent them back to Juda when they are already in Juda. Wow, wow, wow...

Yeah, they don’t care about logic. They don’t care what the Bible actually says. All they care about is protecting their dogma.

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

Jeffro

‘scholar’:

Nope The following factors mitigate against the Return of the Exiles in 538 BCE;
1. Chronology of Darius the Mede
2.. Timing of the Decree ?
3. Proclamation of the Decree throughout Empire
4. Preparations by the Exiles prior to their Journey
5. Return trip home- route and time of Journey?
6. Resettlement home in their cities ?
7.. Timing of Altar Inauguration - Cyrus. 1st to 2nd year?
8. Calendrical reckoning used by Ezra?
Thus, any chronology for the Return must fully account for these factors and shows that to cram all of these in one year - 538 BCE is impossible but the following year- 537 BCE makes the impossible now possible and highly probable.

None of these are legitimate problems. But rather than deal with them yet again on this forum, let’s spare a thought for the fact that the claim that it’s ‘impossible’ is coming from someone who thinks every animal species in the world survived a magical flood by spending a year in a wooden box. 😂