Posts by Jeffro

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

‘scholar’:

What a fascinating conundrum you have posited for now we have a lunar eclipse dated 15 July 588 BC and the solstice on the 9th of the 3rd month which is believed to be on 29th June 588 BC?

What we actually have is an eclipse on 5 July 568 BCE but that is asserted by JWs to have occurred on 15 July 588 BCE (which is impossible because Simanu never starts in July), and a summer solstice 6 days earlier which necessarily occurred within a day of 29 June regardless of the chosen year anywhere during the neo-Babylonian period, once again showing the JW interpretation to be impossible. All of the events, as well as the required intercalary month preceding Nisan, perfectly fit 568 BCE.

Let the Furuli spin begin. 😂

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

🤦‍♂️ It was 29 June. And of course 9 July remains physically impossible.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

I have no problem at all. The solstice falls on exactly the expected date of 29 June 568BCE. You really should stop relying on nutters like Furuli. 😂

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

'scholar':

Strange that it is important now so you will be altering your Blog post?

Well, I said I'd do it at my leisure. The JW position is already thoroughly wrong from start to finish. This is just gravy.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

'scholar':

The appearance of the summer solstice on the 9th of the 3rd month is irrelevant to the lunar eclipse of the 15th of the third month for it is simply one of the many astronomical observations computed or observed contained in the tablet.

Huh?

Maybe read slowly so you understand.

The... 15th... is 6 days after the... 9th.

The... solstice.. on the... 9th... is necessarily... within a day of 29 June.

6... days... after... 29 June... is... 5 July.

It is physically impossible for the eclipse in question to occur on 15 July.

(I hope that last bit wasn't too fast for you.)

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

'scholar':

Now all that you have to do is explain the relevance of the date of the summer solstice of 'the 9th' on Line '16' of the tablet and the lunar eclipse of the 15th' on Line '17'.

I don't actually have to do anything, and the request is somewhat banal.

But since it is established that the summer solstice necessarily occurs around 29 June (Julian calendar) for the given period, the 9th day of the 3rd month must correspond to around that date. And it does exactly correspond for the established chronology of 568 BCE. Of considerably less importance, the eclipse 6 days later is therefore reaffirmed as falling on 5 July.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

'scholar':

How come you have not mentioned this matter in your Blog on your website?

It hadn't seemed necessary. Like others, I had only responded to what the Watch Tower Society had actually claimed, and of course they don't mention that the date of the summer solstice in VAT 4956 immediately shows them to be wrong. But, at my own leisure, I will add mention of this additional issue just to even more thoroughly show the Watch Tower Society's position to be completely and utterly wrong.

Further, you need to provide a scanned copy of such tabulations for the solstice for the years 586 and 588 BCE.

Do I just? 🤣 I don't really need to do any such thing. But if I find a conveniently accessible source, I might do so if I feel like it. Irrespective, the range of possible solstice dates is quite definite. (And it's 568BCE, doofus. Not 586.)

The said scholar is of the opinion that changes concerning the Earth's orbital distance from the Sun has no impact on observations of the Moon either observed or computed

Once again demonstrating your ignorance. But obviously it would affect the position of the moon relative to the various constellations.

thus such a solstice has no relevance to the subject at hand and that is why WT critics are silent on this matter- a red herring!

Again, you wish.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

Well aren't you are a demanding one! 🤦‍♂️

I couldn't be bothered jumping through too many hoops for the likes of you, since I've already demonstrated the range of possible dates for the solstice, but a quick search shows the dates to be in the range I stated (note that a couple do extend into the very early morning of July 1, the latest being 1:07am, but those are back around the 8th century BCE). But it sufficiently demonstrates that for the period in question, the solstice was indeed consistently around 29 June (Julian calendar).

Jedael, S. (2016). Counting Days in Ancient Babylon: Eclipses, Omens, and Calendrics during the Old Babylonian Period (1750-1600 BCE). Unc Charlotte Electronic Theses And Dissertations. (Though the solstice dates are not central to the article's purpose.)

'scholar' will, of course, bleat that I haven't included the exact year of 588BCE, but it is physically impossible for the solstice dates to have wildly varied for just those years.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

'scholar':

Really, then you must explain why?

Wow. 🤦‍♂️The summer solstice is an astronomical event. Changing the date of the solstice so extremely would require a significant alteration to the earth's axial tilt and/or distance from the sun (very significantly more than the range of its elliptical orbit).

Even if it is argued that such a catastrophic change did occur, any such change would make it impossible for modern researchers to accurately predict the positions of any stars or planets in the Neo-Babylonian period.

If in fact, the summer solstice has any relevance as our critics make no comment on this fact.

Maybe other commentators haven't raised it because the other problems with the Watch Tower Society's flawed analysis are generally sufficient to show them to be wrong. But I am quite clever as well, so I don't mind being first.

Perhaps this is just a 'red herring'!

You wish.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

Though 'scholar' has already been thoroughly trounced, it's also worth noting that VAT 4956 identifies the summer solstice on the 9th day of the 3rd month.

The solstice is usually 20 or 21 June in recent years on our modern calendar; it can be as late as 23 June but no later. For Julian dates in the distant past, the period shifts because the Julian calendar differs by about a day for every 400 years compared to the Gregorian calendar. Hence, for the Neo-Babylonian period in question, the Julian date of the summer solstice must fall within the range of 26-29 June (or 30 June if we round up the difference between 588BCE and now to 2800).

For 568BCE, the 9th day of the 3rd month corresponds to 29 June (Julian calendar), which is a perfect fit for the solstice in that period.

But for the Watch Tower Society's nonsensical assertion about Nisan beginning on 3 May in 588BCE, this would put the summer solstice on 9 July, which, again, is impossible.