Posts by Jeffro

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

‘scholar’:

A nice summary of your position but WT scholars have shown that the lunar eclipse described in VAT 4956, 3 Simanu according to the Julian calendar would be 15 July 588 BC and that the New Year would have begun 2/3 May. The solstice 9th Simanu mentioned in the tablet is dated six days earlier thus would be 9 July 588 BC. No doubt much debate about this new research with continuing controversy but WT scholars are quite relaxed and comfortable about such controversies and so is the said scholar.

It’s not merely ‘my position’. 🙄 And it’s 15 Simanu, not 3, which can literally never be 15 July in any year of the neo-Babylonian period, for the same reasons that Nisan can never begin in May and the solstice can never be in July. So much for “WT scholars”. The only option for the JW position, despite their 2011 claim that researchers found it consistent with 588BCE, is to claim VAT 4956 ‘must be all wrong after all’. 🤦‍♂️

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

Fisherman:

I asked what authenticates Vat 4956.

What authenticates the claim that anonymous “researchers” supposedly analysed the lunar positions in VAT 4956 and found them consistent with 588BCE (which they aren’t)? 🤣

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

‘scholar’:

What a fascinating conundrum you have posited for now we have a lunar eclipse dated 15 July 588 BC and the solstice on the 9th of the 3rd month which is believed to be on 29th June 588 BC?

What we actually have is an eclipse on 5 July 568 BCE but that is asserted by JWs to have occurred on 15 July 588 BCE (which is impossible because Simanu never starts in July), and a summer solstice 6 days earlier which necessarily occurred within a day of 29 June regardless of the chosen year anywhere during the neo-Babylonian period, once again showing the JW interpretation to be impossible. All of the events, as well as the required intercalary month preceding Nisan, perfectly fit 568 BCE.

Let the Furuli spin begin. 😂

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

🤦‍♂️ It was 29 June. And of course 9 July remains physically impossible.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

I have no problem at all. The solstice falls on exactly the expected date of 29 June 568BCE. You really should stop relying on nutters like Furuli. 😂

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

'scholar':

Strange that it is important now so you will be altering your Blog post?

Well, I said I'd do it at my leisure. The JW position is already thoroughly wrong from start to finish. This is just gravy.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

'scholar':

The appearance of the summer solstice on the 9th of the 3rd month is irrelevant to the lunar eclipse of the 15th of the third month for it is simply one of the many astronomical observations computed or observed contained in the tablet.

Huh?

Maybe read slowly so you understand.

The... 15th... is 6 days after the... 9th.

The... solstice.. on the... 9th... is necessarily... within a day of 29 June.

6... days... after... 29 June... is... 5 July.

It is physically impossible for the eclipse in question to occur on 15 July.

(I hope that last bit wasn't too fast for you.)

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

'scholar':

Now all that you have to do is explain the relevance of the date of the summer solstice of 'the 9th' on Line '16' of the tablet and the lunar eclipse of the 15th' on Line '17'.

I don't actually have to do anything, and the request is somewhat banal.

But since it is established that the summer solstice necessarily occurs around 29 June (Julian calendar) for the given period, the 9th day of the 3rd month must correspond to around that date. And it does exactly correspond for the established chronology of 568 BCE. Of considerably less importance, the eclipse 6 days later is therefore reaffirmed as falling on 5 July.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

'scholar':

How come you have not mentioned this matter in your Blog on your website?

It hadn't seemed necessary. Like others, I had only responded to what the Watch Tower Society had actually claimed, and of course they don't mention that the date of the summer solstice in VAT 4956 immediately shows them to be wrong. But, at my own leisure, I will add mention of this additional issue just to even more thoroughly show the Watch Tower Society's position to be completely and utterly wrong.

Further, you need to provide a scanned copy of such tabulations for the solstice for the years 586 and 588 BCE.

Do I just? 🤣 I don't really need to do any such thing. But if I find a conveniently accessible source, I might do so if I feel like it. Irrespective, the range of possible solstice dates is quite definite. (And it's 568BCE, doofus. Not 586.)

The said scholar is of the opinion that changes concerning the Earth's orbital distance from the Sun has no impact on observations of the Moon either observed or computed

Once again demonstrating your ignorance. But obviously it would affect the position of the moon relative to the various constellations.

thus such a solstice has no relevance to the subject at hand and that is why WT critics are silent on this matter- a red herring!

Again, you wish.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

Well aren't you are a demanding one! 🤦‍♂️

I couldn't be bothered jumping through too many hoops for the likes of you, since I've already demonstrated the range of possible dates for the solstice, but a quick search shows the dates to be in the range I stated (note that a couple do extend into the very early morning of July 1, the latest being 1:07am, but those are back around the 8th century BCE). But it sufficiently demonstrates that for the period in question, the solstice was indeed consistently around 29 June (Julian calendar).

Jedael, S. (2016). Counting Days in Ancient Babylon: Eclipses, Omens, and Calendrics during the Old Babylonian Period (1750-1600 BCE). Unc Charlotte Electronic Theses And Dissertations. (Though the solstice dates are not central to the article's purpose.)

'scholar' will, of course, bleat that I haven't included the exact year of 588BCE, but it is physically impossible for the solstice dates to have wildly varied for just those years.