Posts by Jeffro

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

Fisherman:

How do you know or by what authority are the actual dates of the solstices for -568/-588?

The following is provided for honest readers who might also want to know about the method used. I installed Cartes du Ciel, (the program used by the 2011 Watchtower ‘researchers’) and made the observations for the required dates, and provided screenshots. Physics determines the correct dates. One can take two approaches. If you know the solstice date already, you can start from there. But even if you don’t know the correct date, you can pick a date in the required year and check the values for the sun, observe the ecliptic longitude and declination for that date, and then adjust the date until the measurements are 90° and 0, pinpointing the correct date for the solstice. I chose to keep all the observations at midday, but the exact time of day can be refined to precisely match if desired.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

Additionally, despite the apologist’s claim in defence of “wt 2011” that “moon phases described in the vat … out of phase with -568”, the November 2011 Watchtower acknowledges that “Scholars say that all these positions occurred in 568/567 B.C.E.”, and it is only The Watchtower’s unsourced assertion that “not all of these sets of lunar positions match the year 568/567 B.C.E.” Where is Fisherman’s dogged skepticism here? 😂

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

See how the apologist just becomes more and more demanding no matter what is provided. But if you dare to ask for evidence that the Bible is ‘inspired’, he calls you deluded. 😂 🤦‍♂️

Because the apologist worships the Watch Tower Society, there ‘must’ be something ‘wrong’ with the solstice dates returned by the astronomy program or the date given for the solstice in the astronomical diary. 🤦‍♂️ Therefore no amount of evidence will satisfy the apologist. Anything that disagrees with his precious Watch Tower Society conclusions will be tediously scrutinised ad infinitum, but the same degree of skepticism is not applied to his own position.

And in addition to rejecting the rock solid dates for the solstices in both years, the apologist also now demands that I rehash the details for the lunar eclipses. 🤦‍♂️ However, others have previously shown that the Watch Tower Society’s claims that the lunar observations are ‘wrong’ for 568 BCE are entirely dishonest. The demanding apologist can do some work for himself for once and search for that existing information.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

Vintage:

There is a thread on this forum from ten years ago that covers much of the same information here presented. Here is the title of that thread.
A JW apologist writes about VAT 4956

I checked that thread, but it doesn't mention solstices. Still worth checking out though. As usual, excellent comments from AnnOMaly.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

In my haste, I highlighted the wrong field in the previous images. The correct field is the Ecliptic longitude. As can be seen, these are still correctly around 90° on the expected dates for the summer solstice, but inaccurate for 9 July (even more so). I have retained the observations for midday in all cases, observed from Iraq. They reach exactly 90° by late afternoon on the required days. Note also that the declination (dDec) value reaches 0 on a solstice, and this value is also wrong for the required JW date.

Astronomical almanacs define the solstices as the moments when the Sun passes through the solstitial colure, i.e. the times when the apparent geocentric celestial longitude of the Sun is equal to 90° (June solstice) or 270° (December solstice).

For reference, I have also included the date for the winter solstice, showing 270° for the Ecliptic longitude on 27 December 568 BCE and 588 BCE, confirming the correct field is now shown.

Summer solstices:

Wrong JW thing:

Winter solstices:

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

In case there are any honest readers...

From Wikipedia:

Astronomical almanacs define the solstices as the moments when the Sun passes through the solstitial colure, i.e. the times when the apparent geocentric celestial longitude of the Sun is equal to 90° (June solstice) or 270° (December solstice).

Note that the position of the sun on the June solstice is 90°. Here are the details for the sun on 29 June 568 BCE, 29 June 588 BCE, and 9 July 588 BCE (using Cartes du Ciel, all observations from midday in Iraq). As can be seen, the position of the sun is only correct on 29 June for both years. Hence, as previously explained, the assertion that 9 Simanu 588 BCE was 9 July is impossible.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

You're going round in circles. Already answered. If you want a better understanding of solstices, look it up.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

I have already answered your stupid question. And yes, your question is stupid, because you keep asking it after I have answered it more than once.

An eclipse that is explicitly 6 days after the solstice cannot occur on 15 July, for the same reason that the solstice cannot occur on 9 July.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4566098901467136/just-read-that-carl-olof-jonsson-died-yesterday?page=27#5460040333393920

if you don’t know what a solstice is, you can find additional information about them on the internet.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Jeffro

Fisherman:

Neither requesting nor demanding. Explain why.

🤦‍♂️