Jeffro

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Posts by Jeffro

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  207

  Scholar and Fisherman

  by Jorden in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

  do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

  if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

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  Jeffro

  Jorden:

  When it comes to what I have said and asked to you about the UN what about it do you find to be a superstition/conspiracy?

  To ‘support’ his position of the conspiracy, he irrelevantly posts evidence that the organisation exists, along with some unfounded opinions and misinterpretations of other vague statements.

  First, when you speak to a JW about 607 and the 70 years, etc... do you do not refer to Scriptures and WTS publications in order to show their nonsense?

  Sigh… yes, obviously I refer to the material that they claim supports their position. And I also have not ridiculed you for also mentioning scriptures in the context of showing them that their interpretation of the 42 months is incorrect. (As a word of advice, though it can be a good strategy to ask questions to guide a discussion, it doesn’t work particularly well if the questions are fallacious and the other person already understands what you’re doing.)

  Both the history of the period and the genre of Revelation confirm that the 42 months referred to the Roman occupation and destruction of Jerusalem in 66-70 CE. It is not only unproductive but also superfluous to replace the JWs’ incorrect superstitious interpretation with an alternative incorrect superstition.

  When it comes to what I have said and asked to you about the UN what about it do you find to be a superstition/conspiracy?

  🤦‍♂️ Don’t pretend that the notion that it’s a conspiracy theory is some novel idea I’ve just come up with on my own. (Though my own independent analysis of the Bible already confirms that those aspects have no relevance to any such conspiracy.)

  New_World_Order_(conspiracy_theory) And no, I haven’t needed to refer to or rely on that article to know the conspiracy theory is unfounded.
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  362

  Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

  he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

  the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

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  Jeffro

  🤦‍♂️ Having been thoroughly trounced from every angle, poor ‘scholar’ whines unintelligently about ‘pretty charts’ while his crony Fisherman fallaciously gurgles praise for his role model. I think we’re done here. Honest people can assess the material here for themselves.
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  207

  Scholar and Fisherman

  by Jorden in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

  do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

  if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  Jorden:

  How it is nonsense? I am asking you about a real entity/organization that was created/founded in 1945 and still exists today. I am asking you about what 3 real men/people said about what the purpose of that entity/organization was created/founded for.

  Your pet topic is widely recognised as a conspiracy theory, and I am not interested in the subject. The fact that an organisation exists or that some individuals have opinions (fallacious argument from authority) doesn’t justify the conspiracy theory. Similarly, vague statements about ‘solidarity’ are not evidence of a plot for world domination. Your attachment of the conspiracy to unrelated Bible passages further reduces your credibility. Hence I will not be humouring you further on the matter.

  You have shown that the JW interpretation of the 42 months is obviously wrong, which is good. But then you have associated it with an alternative superstition, which benefits no one.
• 
  207

  Scholar and Fisherman

  by Jorden in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

  do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

  if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

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• 

  Jeffro

  Jorden:

  there would have to be 'prophecies' that they have deliberately decided to try to claim to fulfill, if that was the case, right?

  For the benefit of other readers, no, there only needs to be some passage that is being reinterpreted as a prophecy about an unrelated subject, i.e., eisegesis.

  But I’m not going to entertain further discussion about the ‘new world order’ nonsense.
• 
  207

  Scholar and Fisherman

  by Jorden in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

  do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

  if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

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• 

  Jeffro

  Fisherman:

  Scholar has done an amazing job showing JW interpretation of Bible chronology is valid.

  I must have missed that post. 😂 Either that or it’s your low (actually, incredibly inconsistent) standard of evidence.
• 
  207

  Scholar and Fisherman

  by Jorden in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

  do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

  if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  Jeffro

  Fisherman:

  Non JW are always telling me what I should do to be a JW.

  Poor you. 🙄 JWs tell people not only what they should do to be a JW, but also that anyone who doesn’t become a JW will die at Armageddon (‘soon’), though they are less than honest about telling people that on initial contact.
• 
  207

  Scholar and Fisherman

  by Jorden in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

  do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

  if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

  1. 
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  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  Yeah, bored now.

  (The conspiracy theorist now seeks to ‘normalise’ the conspiracy by temporarily leaving out the religious superstition, to be roped back in later if one chooses to go down the rabbit hole.)
• 
  207

  Scholar and Fisherman

  by Jorden in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

  do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

  if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  ‘scholar’:

  Which of the two 'word salads' is the better? The said scholar' or Geoffreys'?

  It’s hard to say which was ‘better’. Your wordy gibberish wasn’t overtly dishonest like Jackson’s, so that’s something I guess. But you’re very frequently dishonest on this forum, so don’t think you’re in the lead or anything.
• 
  207

  Scholar and Fisherman

  by Jorden in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

  do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

  if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  Good grief. 🤦‍♂️ It’s funny how the people who claim to respect the Bible the most pay the least attention to the actual intent of the authors, including the historical and cultural context at the time of writing.

  Instead, they are desperate for it to have some ‘hidden meaning’ for now and into the future. Whether it’s Jorden and his UN conspiracy (and no, that doesn’t mean I think the UN and governments are made of rainbows and puppies), or ‘scholar’ and Fisherman’s Adventist end-times beliefs.

  They either pepper quotations of scripture with interpolations of what the passages ‘really’ mean (e.g., ‘[UN]’), or refuse to quote the evasive scriptures that supposedly support their views (e.g., ‘70 years of exile’).

  It makes people feel good to think they have ‘insider’ knowledge that only their special group can ‘discern’ from abstruse passages of ancient texts, but it remains a fantasy.
• 
  207

  Scholar and Fisherman

  by Jorden in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

  do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

  if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Jeffro

  Jorden:

  [Daniel 8:23 “And in the final part of their kingdom, as the transgressors act to a completion, there will stand up a king fierce in countenance and understanding ambiguous sayings. 24 And his power must become mighty, but not by his own power. And in a wonderful way he will cause ruin, and he will certainly prove successful and do effectively. And he will actually bring mighty ones to ruin, also the people made up of the holy ones.

  Daniel 8:23 refers to actions by Antiochus IV Epiphanes in 168BCE.
  

  [Revelation 17:11 And the wild beast…it is also itself an eighth king...13 These have one thought, and so they give their power and authority to the wild beast.]

  Revelation 17:11 refers to a hypothetical version of Nero, specifically referencing the widespread superstitious belief at the time that Nero would return from the dead (Nero Redivivus).
  

  [Revelation 13:5 And a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies was given it , and authority to act forty-two months was given it. 6 And it opened its mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme his name and his residence, even those residing in heaven. 7 And there was granted it to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and authority was given it over every tribe and people and tongue and nation]

  Revelation 13:5 refers to Rome, and specifically Nero, at the beginning of the '42 months' in 66CE.
  

  Stop trying to scare people with nonsense.