Posts by Jeffro

271

VAT4956 - 530 BC destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar

by jwposter in

in my studies, i have concluded that year 530 bc was when the destruction of jerusalem occurred and the temple destroyed.

i had determined this prior to investigation of vat4956.

i had already found that the jubilees, sabbaticals, courses of the priests, and chronology attested to this.

Jeffro

The actual quote from Clement is as follows:

And that it is said, that we and the Greeks know the same God, though not in the same way, he will infer thus: "Neither worship as the Jews; for they, thinking that they only know God, do not know Him, adoring as they do angels and archangels, the month and the moon. And if the moon be not visible, they do not hold the Sabbath, which is called the first; nor do they hold the new moon, nor the feast of unleavened bread, nor the feast, nor the great day."

Clement is saying that neither Christians nor Greeks worship in the same manner as the Jews. Clement is not referring to weekly sabbaths at all, nor associating weekly sabbaths with lunar cycles. The reference to the 'sabbath' as part of the expression "the Sabbath, which is called the first" is in reference to the 'feast of trumpets' (Rosh Hashanah) marking the 'Sabbath' (that is, rest) commanded on the first day of the (civil) new year. See also Leviticus 23:24.

It would be redundant to say the first day of the seventh month is also a sabbath if the first day of every month were a sabbath anyway.

271

VAT4956 - 530 BC destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar

by jwposter in

in my studies, i have concluded that year 530 bc was when the destruction of jerusalem occurred and the temple destroyed.

i had determined this prior to investigation of vat4956.

i had already found that the jubilees, sabbaticals, courses of the priests, and chronology attested to this.

Jeffro

The Sabbath depending, in Israel’s nomadic period, upon the observation of the phases of the moon

I already explained this. As the Jewish Encyclopedia explains, the nomadic period relates to a much earlier Semitic period, not Jewish practice in the Neo-Babylonian period, and certainly not in the 1st century. Specifically, "When the Israelites settled in the land and became farmers, their new life would have made it desirable that the Sabbath should come at regular intervals, and the desired change would have been made all the more easily as they had abandoned the lunar religion." (The Jewish Encyclopedia, Sabbath)

The moon was the beneficent… [herald] of the shepherds

There's those ellipses and interpolations again... you're copying and pasting from nutter websites, not the actual sources. The Jewish Encylcopedia actually says "The moon was the beneficent deity of the shepherds in the region" in that earlier nomadic period. Little wonder the nutter sites, wanting to stick to an illusion of a monotheistic history, want to disguise that...

Just stop.

271

VAT4956 - 530 BC destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar

by jwposter in

in my studies, i have concluded that year 530 bc was when the destruction of jerusalem occurred and the temple destroyed.

i had determined this prior to investigation of vat4956.

i had already found that the jubilees, sabbaticals, courses of the priests, and chronology attested to this.

Jeffro

1899 edition

🙄 and even that is taken out of context. For example…

so that the New Moon no longer coincided with the first day [of the month ]

This is talking about the ‘new moon’ as the first observable crescent being differentiated from the ‘new moon’ as no visible moon at all. It is nothing to do with the date of the sabbath.

271

VAT4956 - 530 BC destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar

by jwposter in

in my studies, i have concluded that year 530 bc was when the destruction of jerusalem occurred and the temple destroyed.

i had determined this prior to investigation of vat4956.

i had already found that the jubilees, sabbaticals, courses of the priests, and chronology attested to this.

Jeffro

jwposter:

From Clement of Alexandria

So… not a Jewish source.

Neither worship as the Jews…[for] if the moon is not visible

This particular quote, always with the ellipsis and omitted text, is very conspicuously only on lunar sabbath nutter websites. As is usually the case with these nutty fringe views, the ellipsis serves as a warning that the statement is out of context. Let’s see if he’ll provide the full quote of the text in between…

Aside from the fact that Clement isn’t a Jewish source, he is obviously not talking about the Jews when he says ‘they’ do not hold various Jewish observances. It is also obvious that ‘the first’ in the second quote (when the moon is not visible) is not the same as ‘the first week’ in the first quote (during a half moon).

Clement is referring, in the first passage to a general approximation of the lunar cycle, and in the second to various observances that do not dictate the timing of the sabbath.

271

VAT4956 - 530 BC destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar

by jwposter in

in my studies, i have concluded that year 530 bc was when the destruction of jerusalem occurred and the temple destroyed.

i had determined this prior to investigation of vat4956.

i had already found that the jubilees, sabbaticals, courses of the priests, and chronology attested to this.

Jeffro

jwposter:

So if you said that it is was ok for the Sabbath to fall on the new moon then your affirming a belief that the sabbaths are not bound by the moon.

Duh.

if the moon falls on the 5th day of the week, you are stuck in what to do with the doors.

No, it quite clearly says to open the door on the new moon, overriding the directive to usually close the door. It’s not complicated. Are you dim?

The Jews needed the moon in order to observe the Sabbath day.

No, they just needed to be able to count to 7. They had that covered.

This nonsense you’re peddling is fringe 20th century Adventist drivel. Just stop.

271

VAT4956 - 530 BC destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar

by jwposter in

in my studies, i have concluded that year 530 bc was when the destruction of jerusalem occurred and the temple destroyed.

i had determined this prior to investigation of vat4956.

i had already found that the jubilees, sabbaticals, courses of the priests, and chronology attested to this.

Jeffro

jwposter:

The question for those that believe the Sabbaths were always on solar day is what do you do if the Sabbath falls on the day of the new moon?

In both cases the door was to be opened so it’s pretty obvious. 🤦‍♂️ But maybe in your addled mind there would be some overly complicated procedure of opening the door twice. 🤷‍♂️🤣

But the Jews do have provisions for if things like temple duties etc fall on a sabbath. There’s no ‘gotcha’ here.

There’s no such thing as ‘solar weeks’.

271

VAT4956 - 530 BC destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar

by jwposter in

in my studies, i have concluded that year 530 bc was when the destruction of jerusalem occurred and the temple destroyed.

i had determined this prior to investigation of vat4956.

i had already found that the jubilees, sabbaticals, courses of the priests, and chronology attested to this.

Jeffro

Your ‘understanding’ of the concept of sabbaths is (intentionally) overcomplicated and wildly inaccurate. Who fed you that nonsense?

jwposter:

As historical researchers know (and the Jewish Encyclopedia), the Jews use to observe the Sabbaths according to the Lunar weeks and not according the solar weeks.

The Jewish Encyclopaedia explicitly contradicts your claims, clearly stating what is obvious to anyone with the most rudimentary understanding of the subject: The sabbath is every seventh day. The closest the Jewish Encyclopaedia gets to your ‘lunar weeks’ drivel is that the practice could possibly have originally developed in relation to lunar cycles among early nomadic Semites prior to Jewish settlements. More likely, also explained in the Jewish Encyclopaedia, is that it was probably adapted from Assyro-Babylonian practices.

Please just go away.

271

VAT4956 - 530 BC destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar

by jwposter in

in my studies, i have concluded that year 530 bc was when the destruction of jerusalem occurred and the temple destroyed.

i had determined this prior to investigation of vat4956.

i had already found that the jubilees, sabbaticals, courses of the priests, and chronology attested to this.

Jeffro

Me:

So we can only conclude that the tradition about the day of atonement is just wrong.

That statement was intentionally glib because I didn’t feel like going down this particular rabbit hole that is ultimately based on unverifiable traditions and cannott be relied upon as historical.

But… if it is assumed that the story about Zechariah were on the day of atonement in the 8th course in 6 BCE (24 October), then the priest courses would actually match up for the first course on 30 August 70 CE. With a subsequent period of at least 15 months for Elizabeth’s 6 months and Mary’s pregnancy, that would place Jesus’ birth in… 4 BCE. (That would be a few months before Jesus’ presumed birth possibly around October; however it is also only tradition that Mary immediately became pregnant when visited by the ‘angel’, which is not stated in the story.)

Of course, it can’t be stressed enough that we don’t really know the actual circumstances of Jesus’ birth or death (beyond that he was probably executed), all of which is only in stories written many years later.

271

VAT4956 - 530 BC destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar

by jwposter in

in my studies, i have concluded that year 530 bc was when the destruction of jerusalem occurred and the temple destroyed.

i had determined this prior to investigation of vat4956.

i had already found that the jubilees, sabbaticals, courses of the priests, and chronology attested to this.

Jeffro

jwposter:

For those that are following along.

The only people following along are laughing at you. A good number of those are wondering why I waste my time on you, but it's not really for you, it's for others who might otherwise fall for your nonsense.

Let's remember there is no year 0.

Good grief. Thanks for that.

Since Jesus was born in 3 B.C.E

No.

during the Feast of Lights

Citation needed. Or to put it another way... no.

Jesus was in His 30th year in 27 AD

By your reckoning, (incorrectly) placing his birthday around Christmas (🙄), he would only be in his '30th year' for a few days at the end of 27 CE, with most of it in 28 CE.

Jesus was in His 33rd year when He was crucified

Probably, which would be 30 CE. Though we don't actually know exactly when he died, beyond contradictory stories written much later.

and rose from the Dead

No evidence that that actually happened.

in 31 AD.

No.

being 32 years of Age.

That's the only thing you got right in this post. (Specifically, about 32.5 years old at the time of his death based on the traditional time of year for his death - but about 32.25 by your nonsense - but we don't really know exactly when he actually died.) It does show that you recognise they counted ages ordinally compared to the way we typically count ages now. So that's something I guess.

Also, what is with your need to capitalise random words?

271

VAT4956 - 530 BC destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar

by jwposter in

in my studies, i have concluded that year 530 bc was when the destruction of jerusalem occurred and the temple destroyed.

i had determined this prior to investigation of vat4956.

i had already found that the jubilees, sabbaticals, courses of the priests, and chronology attested to this.

Jeffro

jwposter:

What a wonderful sign showing that our Lord is Coming to His Church.

I think your Shift key might be getting stuck. 🙄

These wandering stars will begin to come into Virgo in Sept of 2040

It's a pity these end-times nutters can't come up with something happening a bit sooner. 😒