Posts by sinis

20

Did you ever get tired of hearing the WT's reason for why suffering exists?

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

right now, the wt is publishing their "very soon" series of the awake!.

soon - an end to suffering.

the articles are the typical "why does god permit suffering", followed by the issue of universal soverignty, the fall of adam and eve and a concluding "very soon now god's kingdom will bring an end to worldly governments.".

sinis

If God is good and all powerful, why does he allow his creatures to suffer pain? And what of the suffering of animals, who neither deserve pain nor can be improved by it? The Watchtower cannot explain this, they use "The Fall Of Man" as an answer to everything. This is questionable, they cannot connect the dots.
Blueblades

I completely agree. It often bothers me that "innocent" children, and animals have to suffer because of mans greed and uncaring attitude. If god existed then why has he not done anything. If we go to a better place, that would still be a selfish god because he HAD/HAS the power to change things but he waited until you died, whereas true living perhaps may have been with the living. Very disturbing...

I really wonder if we are the offspring of a dieing race who landed here tens of thousands of years ago or even millions of years ago, and lost their technology and expertise. Just like when socities fall and rise. All very strange, though, as I do believe it takes an intelligent life to have constructed the harmony and choas of the universe, while keeping things in order. So where is he/she/it/they?

22

Come, worship a god who wants parents to stone their children to death!

by jambon1 in

no thanks.. disgusting!.

sinis

I completely agree!!! STOP AND THINK PEOPLE!!!! WHY ARE YOU WORSHIPPING A JEWISH GOD, WRITTEN IN A JEWISH BOOK OF MYTHOLOGY??? Why aren't the Romans right, how about the Sumarians, after all they are the oldest culture on the planet. How about the Greek gods, they seem ok don't they? Here is another tid bit to think about... The ONLY reason you have a Judeo-Christian religion today known as christianity is because of TWO things - time and place. If Jerusalem had been occupied by Arabs, under control of Rome then we would probably have an Islam-Christian religion of some kind today. If Jesus existed why do the historians not talk of him until decades later? Qumran sect doesn't even mention him, nor christianity yet they supposedly were a thorn in romes side in the early first century. Also, we have fashioned our legal system after Romes, since they had a system of lawyers and laws. Does anyone REALLY think for one moment that pilate would give into the crowd and condemn an innocent man? Where were the lawyers of Jesus? Finally, DOES ANYONE REALLY THINK THAT GOD (think about that word for a moment) NEEDS OR WANTS YOU TO WORSHIP HIM? Do you really think that God is salivating at the mouth to kill 99.9% of all humanity? Do you really think God is on the side of Christians, whereas to hell with everyone else? Do you want your kids to worship you? Do you kill your kids when they screw up? Do you hold sins against your great great grandchildren for what your kids did? Hell no!!! Yet you are an "IMPERFECT" pathetic human, and yet you have better moral standards than omniscent, ominpotent, almighty god? Yea, thats who I want to hang with... Religion is the second arm of government (at least in democratic socities). If religion did not exist then you would have communisim (form of religion). Religion picks up where government can't go. Should I steal? Hmmm I could get away with it and the police won't see me, buttttt God will and I don't want to go to hell... Should I help this old lady across the street? No social incentive to do that, butttttt God will see and I will go to heaven... ONCE AGAIN, PLEASE FREE YOUR MIND...

37

WAR in IRAQ: Is this about Religion or Oil???

by Kudra in

jw
friends

my mom says that one of the reasons that the wtbts is the true religion (after i told her many things they were wrong about) is that: .

only they told of this "war between governments and religion" and she can see "things coming to a head" in recent years and that this proves so much that this war is just part of the "sign" that the society has always pointed to.

she gives as example also the strong conservative christian leanings of bush and his regime.

sinis

BA- how much of a religious reason do you see? Any? None?

I know that the US calls itself a "Christian nation" but is religious difference at all a bit of the reason there is all this unrest and war between the Western world and the Middle East??

-K

CCR you really need to get past the media fed cool aid...

K - let me ask you this, "How would you feel tomorrow if Chinese para-troopers were landing and infesting your neighborhood and decided to set up a new, improved government?" Probably pretty upset. You would also fight back. These are all normal responses. Religion is just the smoke and mirrors being used to fuel moslem hatred, it is also the same dog and poney show used to fuel our Christian hatred/persistance/dominance.

The Muslim Clerics (AKA as local warlords and tribal chieftains) are using the guise of religion to recruit young men, impoverished, etc., to fight for the clerics cause in the name of allah. They also hate us because we back Israel and they hate Israel.

37

WAR in IRAQ: Is this about Religion or Oil???

by Kudra in

jw
friends

my mom says that one of the reasons that the wtbts is the true religion (after i told her many things they were wrong about) is that: .

only they told of this "war between governments and religion" and she can see "things coming to a head" in recent years and that this proves so much that this war is just part of the "sign" that the society has always pointed to.

she gives as example also the strong conservative christian leanings of bush and his regime.

sinis

Calm down CRR

I am not interested in lib v. conservative pettyness.

I only am interested in sorting out the validity of my mom's point (which I think is none) about all of the issues in these "end times" and this latest war in the middle east being based on *religion* or not.

Any other ideas on topic?

All empires come to an end. Why is America any different? The new kid on the block is China. Eventually they will be a first world super power, while America, due to its weak intestinal fortitude will slip into 2nd or 3rd world status. If society ends it will be due to man and not God. More than likely, the future is ominous in that your freedoms will erode, and this country will lean towards a socialist (even more so) fascist government. Look around today, and no I'm not talking about the Patriot Act as so many flaming libs mention. Small freedoms slowly erode, as do governments ability to dictate what is beneficial for you the citizen. Most people conform because they cannot think for themselves, they need someone to do it for them. In a sense the Pygmalion theory comes true.

Look up articles on the Amero, North American Union for a start. You will see tons of documents generated by this government (via FOIPA) to Canada and Mexico indicating that this is what the governments are planning.

Besides, the Muslims pass out maps (of the world) at their mosque saying they will take over the world by 2050 from sheer force. The map breaks down which countrys they currently have control of and which ones they will have control of (US is one of them).

So really, man can bring about his own demise without the need for god to do it. I think we have the extinction thing covered pretty good

To answer your question, no its not "end times" with respect to God. Its interesting that several popes from past centurys have all said the same thing - these times are the most wicked and the end is coming. Fortunately, it did not come and the next century rolled around, with a new pope saying the same thing. Nothing changes. From a financial, political, and military perspective future generations may be in for a suprise but I'm sure life will find a way to eek out an existence without gods hand. Tell your mom its the same old shit, different time, and that everything will continue to hum along, maybe not as great as past generations, but it will keep going - even if that means living in a bomb shelter

37

WAR in IRAQ: Is this about Religion or Oil???

by Kudra in

jw
friends

my mom says that one of the reasons that the wtbts is the true religion (after i told her many things they were wrong about) is that: .

only they told of this "war between governments and religion" and she can see "things coming to a head" in recent years and that this proves so much that this war is just part of the "sign" that the society has always pointed to.

she gives as example also the strong conservative christian leanings of bush and his regime.

sinis

If you have a conspiracy theory that has value or legs, bring it up on wikipedia. I'm sure they'll find enough proof of the "Osama not connected to 9/11" theory interesting. *L*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden

Dude I don't need Wiki to tell me what they don't know. Oh, and its not a conspiracy theory...thats all I'm saying...

37

WAR in IRAQ: Is this about Religion or Oil???

by Kudra in

jw
friends

my mom says that one of the reasons that the wtbts is the true religion (after i told her many things they were wrong about) is that: .

only they told of this "war between governments and religion" and she can see "things coming to a head" in recent years and that this proves so much that this war is just part of the "sign" that the society has always pointed to.

she gives as example also the strong conservative christian leanings of bush and his regime.

sinis

I won't parse my words. Both you and your mom drank the koolaid of your respective beliefs.
The war's really about a dictator that played a shell game with the most powerful country in the world at a time it got sneak attacked and the rebuilding that ensued.
Tell your mom wars happen all the time, and how the difference between a war and a fistfight on the street is that a fistfight involves individuals while wars involve societies so there's nothing new under the sun.
And tell yourself "If we let this dictator live, we'd be fighting both Saddam and Osama together instead of separately" because that's what the war was really about, stopping Saddam Hussein and OBL from joining forces.

What?!?!? Evidence points to the freakin Musad being behind the attacks. Osama didn't even admit to blowing the towers up until much later, as he ran with the idea to bolster his movement with the fanatics. The cool aid is being served by the Media and the Gov't...

37

WAR in IRAQ: Is this about Religion or Oil???

by Kudra in

jw
friends

my mom says that one of the reasons that the wtbts is the true religion (after i told her many things they were wrong about) is that: .

only they told of this "war between governments and religion" and she can see "things coming to a head" in recent years and that this proves so much that this war is just part of the "sign" that the society has always pointed to.

she gives as example also the strong conservative christian leanings of bush and his regime.

sinis

NO!!!! It is NOT a religious war, per se. It is a RESOURCE war, and just the beginning. Peak oil hit a while back. Mexico, OPEC, and other nations are producing reports saying that maximum production is declining - less oil is being pumped. I have a friend in the ME working at an oil field. He told me that more and more salt water has to be back pumped into the ground to get the oil out. This is an indication that the fields are low.

Look around the world, nations are signing alligance agreements. Look at the agreements - they focus on resources and the sharing of such. Things at this stage will only get WORSE. Bullshit alternate energy bills, like the one Bush signed, will do nothing but starve people out. Corn ethanol production was part of this bill. Unfortunately, it takes a state the size of Texas to grow enough corn to meet TODAYS needs only - not next year or next decade. Corn is a net loss in energy. You can't tell him that, though. So he signs the agreement and now countries like Mexico are trying to cash in. So they send us their excess corn, which has led to recent riots in Mexico City because corn tortillas have tripled in price - people will starve. Corn will also take mash away from livestock owners - thus increasing the price of porks/beefs/chickens, etc.

Starvation is coming, and when you look at historic mortality rates prior to oil production, it was very high. Population explosion and oil coincides with each other. When oil disappears so does fuel, medicine, agriculture, clothing, etc. I have seen oil/mortality charts that indicate that eventually 7 out of 10 people wil have to die to get us to historic population growth without oil.

Right now the big kid on the block is the US. This kid does not want to eat his piece of candy, so he goes around to the smaller kids and steals theirs. Eventually, he will eat his own, but after he has had his fill by eating everyone elses.

46

Parallels between Jonestown and WT org?

by skeptic1914 in

how many saw the recent "jonestown-paradise lost" on the history channel?

i realize the suicide/murder of over 900 in jonestown, guyana on novemebr 18, 1978 may be old news but i've always been interested in how cult leaders hold power over their believers.

i've been reluctant to classify jw as a cult but some obvious parallels struck me:.

sinis

I understand what Jim is saying about the memorial. The doors will be closing faster and shut tighter once the new magazine rules come into play in 2008. The 'loyal' will be feel more privileged. Their zeal will know no bounds as they froth at the mouth to hear what they think are words directly from God. If all were told to partake at the memorial, they would, and it would be a simple enough matter to convince them that they would wake up perfect and happy in a new world. Simple. Let's be aware too, that the order need not come from the GB - all it takes is one whacko nut job or a group of extremists in one congregation to start spouting this stuff, and it can happen as easily as you blink. Whisper......something special is going to take place this year ....whisper...this is it...we have to go.......I can't wait....and so it goes, as followers made to feel somehow special, and somehow superior to the rest of the world, so far removed from it - pass the cup and keel over. Only problem is - they don't wake up. sammiewife.

Exactly! Can you imagine things getting worse in todays society and the GB, who has been "appointed by God" telling the masses that Jehoba wants them to partake at the memorial. Hell, they could even tell them that just as God took Enoch, so God has told them thats its time to leave this earth so that He can judge the ones left (AKA as Global Flood part 2), who did not get into this "ark".

16

Glass Clinking Still from Satan per latest QFR

by Open mind in

my wife and i have for many years thought that glass clinking was soon going to go the way of wind chimes and pinatas.

we were both blown away by the recent "questions from readers" saying that toasting is still the work of the devil and not for christians.. i even had an elder in my hall admit the logic didn't really hold up.

anyway, i thought it was definitely "food at the proper time" .

sinis

JW's cherry pick every custom known to man. For example why wear a wedding ring, after all its pagan. Ties are military garb. Makeup has its roots in prostitution and incantations. Shaving is pagan. Windchimes are pagan. Weddings are pagan. The list goes on and on. JW's can't see the forest for the trees, and nit pick EVERYTHING as being.... oooooo Satan...

36

Guilt over how I acted when I was disfellowshipped-moment of weakness

by Shawn10538 in

i am hoping someone here can offer some wisdom on how i can deal with my guilt.

when i was disfellowshipped a few years ago i acted like a maniac afterwards.

i did and said things to my then girlfriend and other witnesses that i truly regret.

sinis

I am hoping someone here can offer some wisdom on how I can deal with my guilt. When I was disfellowshipped a few years ago I acted like a maniac afterwards. I did and said things to my then girlfriend and other witnesses that I truly regret. The rage I felt at the betrayal I felt the borg was giving me was truly intense. I felt like the gates of hell were opened in my heart and all the bile I had stored up for all those years at Bethel and in the full time service came pouring out and I vented on everyone bearing the name JW, even long time friends and family members. Right noe I am looking for redemption and even attending meetings in an effort to come to peace with it all. I still fell rage at all the lies but I figure making myself go through the reinstatement process will be a good way to learn the lesson of humility. I know you all here will think I'm crazy, and maybe I am. But the pain of being separated from my family is not easing even after all these years. Actuall I feel the pain more now than ever. I'm just not strong enough to be alone out here. I need family around me to feel safe. There are reasons why so many people go back to cults once they are exited, and why people join known cults in the first place. A sense of belonging. I'll never again actually believe in the "Truth" but it seems the lesser of two evils at this point in my life. I am failing at college, teaching and almost everything I try. I was good at being a witness once upon a time and happy once too. I need that happiness back. I am not finding it all alone by myself. Thoughts appreciated.

Yes, let it go! Here are my thoughts... YOU were only given X amount of hours in life. You initially invested UNWISELY with the JW's. You have made a "withdrawel" from the JW time bank, and have X amount of time credits left. Re invest in what YOU want out of life. Do not be suckered back into the ponzi scheme. It hurts when you don't have family, but what kind of family would turn its back on blood? Show you family that you don't need them. Find other friends, quality in nature, who care about you. Show your family that when worldly people care more for you then them, that that becomes a sad day. Go to school, pursue an activity, dream, fantasy, whatever... just reinvest back in yourself. Buy some new clothes, find new friends, find a nice girl, etc. These are ALL moves in the RIGHT direction.

Once again, do not get suckered back in. If you do, YOU will regret it. I just told my friend of the last 20 years who is a JW, that he needs to think outside the box. I told him to pursue what he wants in life, not what others think you need. I also told him that time is nonrefundable, and that every generation thinks its the last - what makes our century any different? Nothing!!!! I told him that when I have used my time wisely, and his foolishly, that we will have this conversation again on our death beds, and I will remind him how he invested unwisely. At that point there is NOTHING you can do, its too late.

You may feel guilt, I know I did when I left. But you have to move on. Life does get better, its what you make of it. Life is NOT what others say you need to do. Its what you choose to do. Like I said, your first move is to gain some good, quality friends, either at work or enroll in some classes at the local college. Contrary to what the JW's say, life is greener on the other side... Hope that helps.