Posts by AllAlongTheWatchtower

24

James Doohan - Star Trek's "Scotty" Dies

by El Kabong in

jw
friends

just saw this on cnn .

http://www.cnn.com/2005/showbiz/tv/07/20/obit.doohan.ap/index.html .

he's beamed aboard that great starship in the sky....

AllAlongTheWatchtower

Ah, I first found out about this when reading a link someone else posted about a Smurf movie coming in 08, I thought about mentioning it but wasn't sure how many other people here would care. Pleasantly surprised to see I was wrong, I will miss his character greatly. For anyone interested, he was also in a movie that looked to me like it was fairly cheesy, something about killer bees I think. Don't really remember, I thought about renting it but it really did look bad, so I didn't even though it had him in it. (Think it had one of the other Trek characters in it too, might have been Sulu.)

(Just Googled for it and found it on IMDB; it was called Bug Busters, and it was Sulu that was in it with him, but I was wrong about the bees, it was cockroaches.)

21

Great video to open eyes, minds, and hearts

by Check_Your_Premises in

jw
friends

http://www.livinghopevideo.com/wcg.htm

i have this video and give it my wholehearted endorsement.

it is the story of the worldwide church of god which was started by a man named herbert armstrong, who had the same self-aggrandizing disease shared by russel-rutheford-knorr-franz..... the church began to reform after his death (which was not supposed to happen because he was "elijah" returned in the end times to "set things right" before christ's return) the video is the story of that reformation.. i am sure they still have some problems.

AllAlongTheWatchtower

CYP, I am curious; I have seen you mention the WCG in several other posts, and I have been wondering if you had a background there? It is also possible that you just found out about it through general research while learning 'apostate' info about the 'truth', but things you have said seem so specific and knowledgeable that I tend to think you were actually a part of it. I only ask because that is my background, and the WCG is so obscure to most people that they never even heard of it, especially since the organization self-destructed after the death of Herbert W Armstrong. (Feel free to not answer me if doing so could blow whatever cover you are keeping currently, I can totally understand and respect that.)

I joined this board because I was seeking answers for my relationship with my wife, who has been involved with JWs since about Nov 04. However, I found that its been a help to me in other ways as well...I had a pretty rough time of it while in the WCG and coming out of it as a teenager. I too have compared the JW stories I see here and my own experiences as a WCG'er, and they are often quite parallel. As far as I know there is no anti-WCG board analogous to this site, I have never sought one though either, so there may be. But coming here has helped me vent, and realize I was not alone with strange religious practices and experiences. In the past, I didn't really have the ability to do that, because it seemed so strange to even raise the subject with 'wordly' people, it just required too much background info to even get into how different my upbringing was. To be honest, I suppose it was easier on myself to simply bury all that past anyway, rather than confront it.

Parallels between WCG and JW that I have recognized:

No "normal Christian" holidays, and substitution of the organization's holidays to replace them. Neither group celebrates birthdays, either.

Policy of non-association with "worldly" people, including shunning of family who 'fall away' from the 'truth'.

Ridicule of all other religions as false faiths, ESPECIALLY Catholicism. The WCG referred to the Roman Catholic Church as the Whore of Babylon.

Focus on faith/god/jehovah in health matters over science/doctors, even to the point of detrimental health on the part of the believer. Dunno about the JWs, but the WCG practiced 'laying on of hands", and members were encouraged to ask for this whenever their health was so bad they felt they needed it, rather than going to the doctor.

"Doomsday-ism" teachings, and prophecies and predictions of 'the end'. The WTS from what I have learned here last predicted the end in 1975. The WCG had a very similar thing in 1976, including many lawsuits from people who left when the world didn't end, then were angry because they sold or gave away their belonging, quit jobs, etc. Makes me wonder if Armstrong and whoever lead the WTS at the time were on the same page in any way? Wonder if they knew each other?

Doctrine of preaching to the world- JWs call it witnessing, and go door to door. The WCG did not make members go door to door, but I remember as a child going with my mother and asking to see grocery store managers, store owners, etc, asking to put cardboard display boxes in the same area where they had free apartment rental books and other flyer-type publications. If they gave permission, we would set up the boxes and fill them with the Plain Truth magazine, restocking the boxes every month or so. The WCG justified this policy by quoting passages in the bible which referred to being "fishers of men".

Subjugation of females, male dominance. The father is the head of the household, period, end of story. Both also keep women out of the clergy.

Abuse of children via the "spare the rod and spoil the child" philosophy.

Banning of movies, books etc, based on labeling them as "evil", "worldly" etc. I saw a post on here that mentioned Star Wars and spiritism, I remember as a child hearing a whole sermon based on how Star Wars was evil and actually an allegory of the Bible, good and evil, God vs the Devil, complete with Darth Vader as Satan, etc. (LOL, obviously the guy preaching had seen the movie)

Persecution complex: Both orgs teach that one can be expected to be persecuted just for being a member, because you now have 'the truth'. In both groups this can either become a self-fulfilling prophecy because the member expects it, or become an actual truth because the member changes so drastically that others resent it in some way. (Employees refusing to work certain hours or overtime due to religion requirements, thus causing friction with bosses, or spouses refusing to do certain things with their mates anymore thus causing friction at home.)

Pacifist doctrine: Turn the other cheek, don't fight back, no joining the military, etc. (Personally I have come to the conclusion that this is at least in part a way to keep people from gaining some backbone and confidence, if not totally-rather than being a matter of conscience/religion.) Though from being here I have learned that the JWs go a step further and also ban karate and the martial arts, I don't recall that the WCG did that, although it does go against the pacifistic teaching. The WCG also frowns upon competitive sports as the WTS does, although I remember as a kid being in the Youth Opportunities United group, and we had inter-church basketball games...a bit hypocritical there, I guess...think what they really meant was no sport with a worldly organization like school, etc. Armstrong used to talk about playing cards in his sermons, saying that hearts was his favorite game, and how it must have been approved by god because the object of the game is to GIVE all your cards away.

I'm sure there are many others, but I'm running out of steam here, and this post has become much longer than I intended anyway. It started out as a simple question to CYP.

31

Cats a JW no-no?

by Confession in

i stumbled across what appears to be a website maintained by a jw circuit overseer.

on it he includes what looks like a question from readers.

it has very strong things to say about the 'beastliness' of cats--and why christians should consider whether or not it is proper to have them in our homes.

AllAlongTheWatchtower

Its a damn shame this isn't for real, my wife loves cats. I have brought up other things to her that I learned from here in the hopes that it would open her eyes, but nothing has worked. I bet she would chuck every watchtower in the house if this were true, and I showed it to her, then offered to bring her home a kitten. *sigh*

27

Reasons to make you leave a spouse/partner

by greendawn in

what would it take for you to break up a relationship with someone you really love?

would it be physical abuse, refusing to go out and work, abuse of child, or whatever else?

AllAlongTheWatchtower

Wow...the Google ads that came up with this post...unfaithful spouse spy on spouse reasons to live and wife cheating. Sheesh! lol.

At this point in time, I would have to say cheating is the only thing that would make me want to leave my wife, to me thats just an unforgiveable. Then again, I can't see the future, and have no idea how things may go as far as her going down the JW path and me being an atheist... Not something I really want to think about, as it is part of what I fear about her becoming so immersed in this thing so thouroughly and so quickly. Even with that, I would be more worried about her leaving me than me giving up on her.

95stormfront: I have absolutely forbidden my wife to give any money to the WTS that comes from my pocket, but told her if she gets a job she is free to do what she wants with her own money as long as she helps out with the bills. I DO find it to be an annoyance that she fills out job applications with schedules that no employer is likely to agree to in order to allow time for studies, meetings, etc.

40

Ever got stung or bitten by animals?

by greendawn in

did you ever get attacked by nasties from the animal world?

that includes getting stung by bees, wasps, spiders, scorpions, medusas, poisonous fish etc .

or perhaps suffered a snake bite, heavens forbid, or bites from dogs, lions, bears etc

AllAlongTheWatchtower

Its been a long time since I had a battle with the little buggers, but for many years I had an ongoing war with bees, at last track I had counted up the following stats:

Stings: 215-219 (exact count hard to keep, especially in incidents where you get 20-25 stings at once)

Dead Bees: 3,000-3,500 (including individual kills where I used to sneak up on them while they hovered over a flower and whack 'em with a yardstick, multiple kills where I used cans of spray-glue aerosol to knock them out of the air, and estimates of 50 per nest destroyed with either spray-glue, fire, or spray bee poison.) My last confirmed kill was a bee that scared the crap out of my wife, and was buzzing about by our door and preventing her from going in the house. Raised my foot and waited until he hovered in midair, then *stomp!*. That was about a week ago.

26

Do you have any 'holdover' beliefs?

by AllAlongTheWatchtower in

after reading and responding recently to a post about eating pork and clean and unclean meats, and also a few about newfound freedoms and pleasures that some enjoy now that they are out of the jws, i got to wondering if there is anything like that on the flip side of the coin.

in other words, despite you leaving the wts, is there anything you still believe that they taught, even though you left or were forced out, and no longer believe the rest of the jw doctrine?.

i was never a jw, but i was raised in a rather similar group called the worldwide church of god, many of the controls, strictures, and abuses that i saw as a child there, i see posted about here-though they are different, they are also the same.

AllAlongTheWatchtower

After reading and responding recently to a post about eating pork and clean and unclean meats, and also a few about newfound freedoms and pleasures that some enjoy now that they are out of the JWs, I got to wondering if there is anything like that on the flip side of the coin. In other words, despite you leaving the WTS, is there anything you still believe that they taught, even though you left or were forced out, and no longer believe the rest of the JW doctrine?

I was never a JW, but I was raised in a rather similar group called the Worldwide Church of God, many of the controls, strictures, and abuses that I saw as a child there, I see posted about here-though they are different, they are also the same. Even though I am now an atheist, there are some things that I was raised believing that are just hard to let go. For instance, eating pork, shellfish, etc, that breaks the taboo I was taught as a child. At first, I would purposely eat such things just for the little charge I got out of 'being naughty' after being kicked out the church. Once the novelty of it wore off though, I found that for the most part it was still hard to do on a regular basis, or enjoy when I did. (I still remember my first experience eating crab for my 13th birthday while in a foster home; it was the first birthday I'd had since I was 6 or 7, and the first time I had EVER eaten crabmeat. At about 2 in the AM, I woke up and had to run to the bathroom, I was violently ill-unsure whether I got sick from eating the wrong parts, or a food allergy, or what. At the time I was nearly convinced that I was being struck down like the Israelites who ate the quail in the bible story, I had not only had the audacity to eat crabmeat, but celebrated a b-day besides!)

Another example of this was that the WCG actually lead to me being atheist, they taught that christmas was wrong and pagan just as JWs do, so once I was kicked out, there were very few religions I felt I could turn to. I have seen people here talk about the frustration of trying to help family members out of the organization, but they won't leave because they say 'where else is there to go for the truth?' even if they don't believe the entirety of the doctrine anymore. I sometimes even wonder if I somehow contributed to my wife joining the JWs, due to my own beliefs, which in many cases coincide with JWs. Like not celebrating easter or christmas, which we had talked about before, it never really bothered me to give presents on christmas and such though, in fact I long ago agreed that if she wanted to have a tree or once we had kids to celebrate christmas, I had no problem with it. How ironic that now the shoe is on the other foot, and she is the one who now says they are bad.

23

Why are pigs "unclean" and what does "unclean" mean?

by Elsewhere in

jw
friends

there are several religions that teach that pork is an "unclean" meat and therefore should be avoided.. what, exactly, does "unclean" mean?

when i think of "unclean" i think of something contaminated by dirt or dangerous bacteria.

is there some other "spiritual" substance in pigs that cannot be detected?.

AllAlongTheWatchtower

I was raised in a religion that followed the doctrine of clean and unclean meats, I'm not sure there IS any justification for it other than that it IS in the bible in Leviticus or Deuteronomy. Though many in the church I attended speculated that it was god's wisdom in not allowing us to eat things that were bad for our health, based on the logic that most of the animals listed as unclean were scavenger animals which could and did eat garbage and carrion. That theory supposes that such animals are less healthy to eat because their flesh must retain some of the poisons/bacteria etc that they consume. Of course the Israelites in biblical times had no way of knowing about bacteria and such, but my atheist viewpoint simply assumes that they noticed people who ate such things were less healthy in some way, and therefore banned them in their religion. Whether there are REAL health consequences to eating any such food or not, I doubt any scientific evidence is in existence, but I could be wrong. To this day because of my upbringing, I still have some reluctance to eat any pork products, and will usually buy beef bacon, sausage, etc unless its so hideously expensive that I just pass on it. Which it often is.

Anyone with any relevant information on this, I am extremely interested in it, as it is one of the ideas I have to attempt to discredit the JW beliefs with my wife. To my way of thinking, they are just nuts to have the blood doctrine which is based on old testament law, yet NOT also follow the clean and unclean meats laws which they often quote as evidence of the prohibition on blood. I have raised this point with her once or twice, and she even asked her study group, but then she reported back to me that they said the clean and unclean meats law was just not applicable anymore. I was flabbergast, I thought she would see then that they were full of sh_t, but she just accepted that. To me, that was proof they simply pick and choose what they want or make it up completely, I could not understand why she simply accepted what they told her.

15

State control on cults

by greendawn in

do you think it's a good idea if the state puts tight controls on cult like organisations like the jws and many others, eg to control the power of their judicial committees or have warnings in their books/mags or even kingdom halls that they use in them mind control techniques?

or warnings about the consequences of leaving the wts after baptism.

the jc are secretive kangaroo courts made up of incompetent people taking decisions against adults but even against under age children that can have destructive consequences on their lives.

AllAlongTheWatchtower

I am a firm believer that though almost all proponents of major religions say they desire world peace, it can never be achieved until all mankind reaches a level of understanding where we simply shed religion like a no longer needed skin. That being said, I'm not sure I trust governments to impose fair legislation that involves breaking the taboo of seperation of church and state. Once that boundary is blurred....well, enough said. To those who think this is a good idea, you might want to refer to another thread on here that talked about Muslims and seperation of mosque and state. Ideally, this is an idea that should come from the people, and work its way up, not the other way around. Though I fear that the people will never actually manage this.

I do however, feel that ALL religions should lose their tax-exempt status, in every country in the world. This is not a seperation of church and state issue, merely one of taxation and fairness. Far too many churches/religions take advantage of this to perpetuate themselves and are run like businesses for the exemption policy to sit well with me.

10

Scan of 67 WT needed

by Black Sheep in

i need a scan of the following for a mission i am on.

chris.

wt 1967 nov 15 p.702-4 qfr.

AllAlongTheWatchtower

Soooo...based on that logic; that animals are seperate from humans, and are to be used to sustain human life...and the blood doctrine is one of anti-cannibalism...it should be ok to accept blood/organs etc from an animal, if it can be made to be compatible with the human body, correct? Weren't the first heart surgery patients given pig or baboon hearts? The WTS should, in theory, be ok with that, right? I mean, after all, they're ok with surgery, and though things may have modernized now, at one point (maybe still?) stitches gotten through surgery were made of catgut (which is actually sheep intestine, never understood why its called catgut).

*Makes a mental note to tell his wife to ask her studygroup people about this in the hope that it will make their little simpleton heads spin*

11

What the heck is this?

by Hellrider in

just for fun, i pressed one of the links advertised for on this forum, this one: .

http://tellway-publishing.com/index.php?action=website-view&websiteid=26&webpageid=405.

...it`s the one that advertises itself with "jesus, god, or son of god?".

AllAlongTheWatchtower

I doubt anything could be done about ad content even if the owners of this site wanted to do something about it. I'm a volunteer admin at another site, and have on occasion reported inappropriate ad content there to the owner, he has told me that in most cases unless its really flagrant, there's nothing he can do. The reason being that his contracts are with parent companies, who then use the ads of whatever companies THEY have deals with. He did get them to remove an ad for enlargement of a certain portion of male anatomy that I reported once though.